Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:39:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802251339.IAA10797@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Don Wiggins Sender: Lojban list From: Don Wiggins Subject: Re: Summary so far on DJUNO X-To: "lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu" To: John Cowan X-UIDL: 0be792d50c972de553e39579074f9c39 X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-From-Space-Date: Wed Feb 25 09:26:03 1998 X-From-Space-Address: - la .and di'e cusku > Anyway, it seems to me as if you are getting distracted by some > peculiar obsession about the word "true". When I use "true" in > speaking of the true-x2 version of {djuno}, I use it in the same > sense as is involved in the definition of cmavo like: > ja`a, na, ge, ga, go, gu, jei For any expression f by a is true only if the metaphysics M used by a evaluates to true. That is any expression is f is a function of M and M is a function of a: f (M (a)). The important point to note that it is not possible for the expressor to change the metaphysics of a simple statement. This is were 'jetnu' comes in. 'jetnu' provides an argument for a different metaphysics M' under which to evaluate f for it to be true. So we have jetnu (f, M'). Note that M' is not necessarily dependent upon a. > For example, > > ko`a djuno le du`u ko`e mlatu > >would be truth-conditionally equivalent to > > ge ko`e mlatu gi ko`a djuno le du`u ko`e mlatu This is false. Only 'djuno' is evaluated using the expressor metaphysics M (a). The 'du'u' subexpression does not need to be evaluated to determine if the knowee knows it, there must be only an epistemology to say how it is known. > Anyway this complaint is unfair. The metaphysics by which ko`e in > {ko`a djuno ko`e} is true is the same metaphysics by which {ko`a > djuno ko`e} is true. In other words, "If X djuno Y then Y". If you > get worried about "truth" then use logical connectives instead. jetnu (Y, M') /=> Y (M (a)) An expression of Y is true by M' does not mean that I can say Y. > I don't know what you understand by > 1. le du`u broda cu "true" > but what *I* mean by "true" is something that would make (1) Again, use jetnu (Y, M') to switch the metaphysics context from M (a). > equivalent to (2). > 2a. ja`a broda > 2b. broda This is broda (M (a)) and this is not the same as broda (M'). > You have in effect been saying that that {djuno} means > epistemology x4 convinces x1 that x2 is true of x3 by a certain > metaphysics, M This is correct. This still does not say that x2 is true nor is it necessary. ni'oco'omi'e dn.