Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804091713.NAA19108@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jorge_J._Llamb=EDas?=" Sender: Lojban list From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jorge_J._Llamb=EDas?=" Subject: Re: Lojban ML: Syllogism and sophism X-To: lojban To: John Cowan X-UIDL: 10403bcbe931520cbd91c4d9d1b85c8a X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-From-Space-Date: Thu Apr 09 13:36:01 1998 X-From-Space-Address: - Lojbab: >>> If we want the ambiguitry of English, why bother using Lojban? >>English is as capable of disambiguation as is Lojban, isn't it? > >I don't think so. Every expression which disambiguates in English is itself >ambiguous. Yes, and every expression which disambiguates in Lojban is itself ambiguous as well. Could you give a Lojban expression that cannot be translated to English to the same degree of unambiguity? > It is only by using our very sophisticated and human "understanding" >that we are able to resolve which meaning applies. Yes. That's true both for English and for Lojban. >"marji" is "matter" which among other thinsg seems to have composition >to ever finer levels of analysis. And "mass" is the degree/amount to which a >substance has/is composed of matter, on an open-ended scale. Ok, so you're using the "xokau" definition of {ni}. We'd have: le ni [ce'u] marji = le ka ce'u marji sela'u li xokau The extent to which something has a material composition. The problem with {ni}, as we already discussed, is that it is also defined to be something else, a number. {le ni marji} is variously defined to be like {le ka grake} and like {le se grake}. > As I said, >this is one of the paradigm-formers that I use to conceive of "ni". No >doubt this means you can/will try to tear holes in it %^). I don't think I can add much to what was said last time we discussed it. > But to me >everything measureable is a "ni" of something. Usually, though, we find it >easier toget "ni" from what are in English , adjectives. e.g. clani -> long >ni clani -> length; slabu ->old, ni slabu -> age. I think this was already discussed as well, but slabu is not old in the sense of many-yeared, so ni slabu can hardly be age. It would be the extent to which something is known. For example, my sister has more {ni slabu} to me than you do, even though you have more age. My preferred word for age is of course {ka nanca}, or {ka ce'u nanca li xokau}, "how many years someone has". co'o mi'e xorxes