Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 11:59:03 -0400
Reply-To:     John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From:         John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
Organization: Lojban Peripheral
Subject:      Re: ko ko kurji
To:           Multiple recipients of list LOJBAN <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
Message-ID: <896198567.1115110.0@listserv.cuny.edu>
Content-Length: 2012
Lines: 48


la djordj. cusku di'e

> Does {ko ko kurji} mean a mixture between {ko kurji zo'e} and
> {zo'e ko kurji}, or is it more complex?

No, it's a conjunction of "ko do kurji" and "do ko kurji".

> I don't think I fully
> see the distinction between {ko do kurji} and {ko ko kurji}.
> Obviously the former means "make-it-so-that you care for
> yourself", emphasising that it's the first `you' that's
> imperative.  Does {do ko kurji} mean more {ko se kurji} and that
> it should be you that does the caring?

Yes.  "ko do kurji" is "Take care of yourself!" and "do ko kurji"
is "Be the one who takes care of you!"

> Does the imperativeness actually apply to the selbri or not?
> Logically it would seem that it shouldn't apply... to me at this
> time at least.

It's a matter of point of view.  Imperativeness is really a property
of the *bridi*, but most languages label the verb; Lojban labels
the 2nd-person pronoun, which must be explicit.

> Perhaps my problem is that English doesn't (normally) make it
> possible to be imperative about more than one thing.  I don't
> think it's possible to translate it into English `nicely', but
> maybe it is possible to explain what it means, in English.

Correct, I think.  It means "I am commanding that 1) you take
care of yourself and 2) you be the one who is taken care of
by yourself.", but this translation is far from "nice".

--
John Cowan      http://www.ccil.org/~cowan              cowan@ccil.org
        You tollerday donsk?  N.  You tolkatiff scowegian?  Nn.
        You spigotty anglease?  Nnn.  You phonio saxo?  Nnnn.
                Clear all so!  'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5)