Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:02:18 -0300
Reply-To:     "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jorge_J._Llamb=EDas?=" <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From:         "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jorge_J._Llamb=EDas?=" <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>
Subject:      Re: Coi.
To:           Multiple recipients of list LOJBAN <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
Message-ID: <901152810.1124116.0@listserv.cuny.edu>
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la eduard cusku di'e

>  I am teaching myself lojban.
>
 >  mi mi ctuca zo'e la lojban.

Yes, or equivalently:

    mi mi ctuca fo la lojban

>Would it be appropriate to put what I want to learn regarding lojban
>(tavla,tcidu,ciska ) in place x3? If so, what would I do to the brivla
>to make it fit into the x3 place?

In general, x3 is for facts, so you might say for example:

    mi mi ctuca le du'u rexa da lerfu le lojbo kei la lojban
    "I teach myself about Lojban that there are 26 letters
     in the Lojban alphabet."

If you fill in the x3, it is kind of redundant to fill the x4 as well
because it will have to be one of the arguments of the
bridi of  x3.

What goes in x3 is the sort of thing that would go in the x2
of djuno:

    mi djuno le du'u rexa da lerfu le lojbo
    "I know that there are 26 letters in the Lojban alphabet."

> Could I just insert "le du'u tavla" into x3?
>
>  mi mi ctuca le du'u tavla ku la lojban.
>
>Does that make any sense? Does it say what I intend?

I don't think it says what you intend. It says something like:
"I teach myself that there is talking in Lojban" or maybe
"I teach myself that Lojban is talked about", depending
on whether you assume that the more likely place for
{la lojban} is the x3 or the x4 of {tavla} (x1 and x2 are very
unlikely).

What you want is more like "I teach myself how to talk
in Lojban":

        mi mi ctuca le du'u tavla bau la lojban ta'i makau

That is if you insist on using {ctuca}. In the same way, you
could say:

        mi djuno le du'u tavla bau la lojban ta'i makau
        "I know how to talk in Lojban."
        ("I know what is the method for talking in Lojban.")

But maybe there is a better way to say it, avoiding the
indirect question. For example:

         mi certu le nu tavla bau la lojban
         "I'm skilled at talking in Lojban."

That is a better translation for this use of English "know"
than using {djuno}, because {djuno} is for facts, not
for abilities.

Similarly:

        mi crebi'o le nu tavla bau la lojban
        "I become skilled at talking in Lojban."
        ("I learn how to talk in Lojban.")

is better than using {cilre}, which like {djuno} and {ctuca},
is only for facts. Then for "teach how to" we can
use {cregau}:

        mi mi cregau le nu tavla bau la lojban
        "I make myself skilled at talking in Lojban."
        ("I teach myself how to talk in Lojban.")

> Thank you very much in advance for any help and enlightenment.

Hope it helped.

co'o mi'e xorxes