Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:41:40 -0400
Reply-To:     Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
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From:         Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Subject:      Re: A First Words in Lojban
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>> My name is Brendan:
>>         mi cmene Brendan do - Again I feel that the last sumti is not really
>> necessary here.  While I can see a case for dropping the initial sumti I
>--More--
>> don't think that is correct.  I wouldn't say "Name Brendan," but "My name is
>> Brendan."  So this one ends up being "mi cmene Brendan".  How is that?
>
>No, you got the place structure of "cmene" wrong.  The first place is
>the name, the second is the entity described.  Try one of:  "mi se
>cmene brendan.", "mi selcmene brendan.", "mi selme'e brendan.".
>"selcmene" and "selme'e" are lujvo both meaning "x1 is named x2 by x3".
>
>Again though there's a simpler way -- the cmavo "mi'e" is a (slightly
>unusual) vocative meaning "my name is".  Vocatives are often followed
>by names (so I can say "coi .brendan."); the name is normally that of
>the person addressed.  The unusual thing about "mi'e" is that the
>name is that of the speaker (so you would say "mi'e .brendan.").
>
>Vocatives are very useful -- it's well worth finding out more about
>them.
>
>> Hello.  My name is Brendan:
>>         rinsa mi cmene Brendan - Hmmm...  Perhaps this is the specter of my
>> English teacher mother guiding me but as a neophyte in Lojban I don't see a
>> clear break between the first sentence and the next.  Perhaps it should be
>> "rinsa vau mi cmene Brendan".


George almost got this right. A name must be surrounded by quotes in the
x1 of cmene (but  not inthe vocative version he later proposed).

so the normal bridi way of expressing this is "mi se cmene zo brendan".

Another possible way of doing the first sentence, BTW is
"do se rinsa"  You are greeted
where the greeter is elliptical and obvious.
But the vocative methods are indeed what would usually be used.

>> Catapultam habeo.  Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum
>> immane mittam.
>
>    mi ponse le rokci renro .i ko dunda fi mi le do jdini .ija mi ca
>    renro lo bardi rokci le do stedu

I think you want .ijonai (exclusive OR) rather than .ija, since you don't
plan to throw the rock if the money is tranferred.  I might also use
"isemu'i" betweeen the first two sentences, because the catapult ownership is
a motive for the money transfer.

>"rokci renro" here means "rock thrower".  "seldanti" might be a
>better word for catapult but it's not specific; it would just mean
>some kind of launching weapon.  Perhaps "rokci seldanti". "ro'ire'o"
>would be a nice lujvo for catapult -- it sounds nice. :)  I don't
>think you're meant to create lujvo casually though.
>

Actually, that is PRECISELY what I what people to do when they feel up to it.
And I would not expect them to bother with place strcture determination in
such an ad hoc coinage, but rather rely on what seems obvious for the context.
We can always go bakcand analyze thingslater ifthe word seemsto catch on, and
natural usage overridesthe lujvo-making place conventions. I think your coinage
is just fine, but other may do better: rock-throw-apparatus comes to mind
as a plausible metaphor.

lojbab
----
lojbab                                                lojbab@access.digex.net
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA                        703-385-0273
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