Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:44:53 -0300
Reply-To:     "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jorge_J._Llamb=EDas?=" <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From:         "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jorge_J._Llamb=EDas?=" <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>
Subject:      Re: A First Words in Lojban
To:           Multiple recipients of list LOJBAN <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
Message-ID: <903829935.2111110.1@listserv.cuny.edu>
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>Sorry I don't have the time to actually reply to this in Lojban.  I am
>presuming that you are using sivju'o for "esoteric".

i do drani sruma  i pe'i va'o le nu da'i ca ro jeftu do pilno re cacra
le nu ciska bau la lojban lo tordu notci be fo le liste cu zenba
fa le selvla cukta poi do ca'o finti ku'o le ka zabna kei lo mutce
i ju'o lo cacra be li re na dukse le ka se cpedu i mi na ka'e jimpe
le du'u do finti lo selvla cukta secau le nu pilno le bangu

> This was not my intended
>meaning of esoteric, though it might apply.

i e'o ko ciksi le do terzu'e smuni

 >I don't think this is necessarily bad for Lojban.  But I still trust
people's
>novice instincts as to what words SHOULD mean in order to be useful in
>language over any sort of rigorous analysis or convention.

i li'a do zifre le nu krici ro da poi do djica i ri'i mi le nu jijnu cu
so'iroi
drani gi'e so'iroi selsre i mi senpi le du'u le nu jijnu cu zmadu le nu
lanli kei le ka facki le du'u makau selplimau

> Thus a novice
>may violate the conventions grossly in trying to express an idea, but if
>the idea is understood, then communications has occured.

i li'a ju'o

> maybe a more
>expert Lojban will want to modify the nonce lujvo to insert a "se"toget the
>sumti in the right order, or  use a different gismu that includes a place
>that the novice's gismu choice does not actually have as part of the
semantics,
>but this will always be after-the-fact, incomplete, and not necessarily
>universally agreed on.

i ie go'i

> We then have to decide whether only words that everyone pretty much
>agreeson go in the dictionary, or whether we will allow some degree
>of sloppiness and disagreement as to the applicability of some lujvo place
>structures.

i ma ba jdice  i mi smadi le du'u go'i fa do noi finti le vlacku
i mi djica le du'u le jdice cu certu le nu pilno le bangu iseki'ubo
mi cpedu je stidi le nu do pilno lo pagbu be le vlacku finti temci
le nu ciska bau la lojban

> The fact that the dictionary is a baseline document is of
>coursepart of the problem, as sloppiness in the dictionary place structures
>becomes lasting sloppiness until/unless the baseline is reviewed many years
>later.

i e'e ma'a gasnu le nu le nabmi cu se danfu gi'a jdika

co'o mi'e xorxes