Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:15:33 -0400
Reply-To:     Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From:         Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Subject:      Re: A First Words in Lojban
To:           Multiple recipients of list LOJBAN <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
Message-ID: <903799090.1122841.0@listserv.cuny.edu>
Content-Length: 3419
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>cu'u la lojbab
>>Actually, that is PRECISELY what I what people to do when they feel up to
>it.
>
>I agree. I create lujvo casually all the time. That's how the language
>works, lujvo are not just words that are created once
>and for ever. Most will probably be used only the one time.
>
>>And I would not expect them to bother with place strcture determination in
>>such an ad hoc coinage, but rather rely on what seems obvious for the
>context.
>
>Here I disagree. For example, if someone used {le ro'inre'o} to refer to the
>rock thrown by the catapult, no matter how obvious the context, I will still
>think it's not a good choice of lujvo. The place structure of the components
>is important and has to be taken into account. The x1 of ro'inre'o cannot be
>the object thrown.

I agree that it is not likely that such would be approved, i agree.

HOWEVER, I think that it is essential that  the Lojban community be a
cooperative-communication one: if a novice coins a lujvo with such a place
implied, it is important not to get too crtitical. We can be more careful
when words seem to be used many times  or to be candidates for dictionary
usage.

The critical thing is that novices writing "their first Lojban words", and
indeed most people in their first year of working with the language, will
have little likelihood of understanding, much less mastering, the esoteric
elements of lujvo-place struucture conventions.  But if such people get
the idea that they need to master those conventions before they start
making lujvo, then the language will end up being largely a gismu-only
dictionary-bound conlang with limited lexicon (like most others).  I think
part of Esperanto's success hasbeen its easy incorporation of new words
-albeit many seem to be borrowings.  With Lojban, we want to avoid
borrowings and encourage lujvo, and still have the rapid lexicon growth and
language accessibility for novices that Esperanto has.  This means that
nonce lujvo have to beencouraged and adherence to conventions must be
the lowest of priorities in teaching/crtitiquing new Lojbanists.

(I note that JCB's list has had its first multi-posting thread in several
months (i.e. a half dozen messages) and these postings are about this very
type of thing - they wanted words for borscht and for Russian hats. rather
than try to make lujvo for either,they seem to have chosen instead to
borrow the words, and to do so into gismu space nonetheless.  Now borscht
might be a little harder as a lujvo, but there is no justification for
"capka" for a Russian hat in either version of the language.)

lojbab
----
lojbab                                                lojbab@access.digex.net
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA                        703-385-0273
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