Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:40:05 +0000
Reply-To:     george.foot@merton.oxford.ac.uk
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From:         George Foot <george.foot@MERTON.OXFORD.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: A First Words in Lojban
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On 21 Aug 98 at 1:07, Joseph Doyle Flenner wrote:

> coi
> Since you beat me to the translation, I'll share my comments.  :)
> mi ponse le rokci renro .i ko dunda fi mi le do jdini .ija mi ca renro
> lo barda rokci le do stedu
> Since I'm inexperienced also, mostly I have questions:  Why do you use lo
> for "barda rokci" but le for "rokci renro"?  My first try would put lo on
> rokci renro just because it's "a" in English, but it could be that you
> want to leave open the possibility that you're bluffing on the catapult...
> but then, how would you heave what really is a big rock without what is
> really a catapult?

I did that because the catapult is something I choose to describe as
a rock thrower; in addition, I'm talking about a specific rock
thrower.  The rock really is a rock, but exactly which rock(s) it is
doesn't matter.  I chose which cmavo to use mainly for the
specificity, but considered their other implications too.  Of course,
my usage may be incorrect.

> My first thought was to translate it as something meaning, roughly "Choose
> between giving me your money and having a rock launched at your head."
> Is this, then, roughly correct:
> .i ko cuxna zi'o lenu do dunda le do ro jdini mi kei ce lenu mi renro lo
> barda rokci le do stedu
> Choose from the set "The event of you giving all your money to me" and
> "The event of me throwing a big rock at your head"
> ??

Oops, I didn't say `all', but I think it was implied.  I think
it's slightly odd when you say "le do ro jdini"; it means "all of
that described as some of your all monies" I believe.  "le do jdini"
or more explicitly "ro le do jdini" means "all of that described as
some of your money", which isn't right either I suppose.  Perhaps "ro
lo do jdini" ("all of that which really is all of your money").

> This way it seems like you can avoid admitting that there's a good
> possibility that you're still going to throw the rock if you get the
> money.

lojbab pointed out the way to do this with connectives; "X ijonai Y"
(where X and Y are bridi) means "X if-and-only-if not Y", which is
"X or Y but not both".

> I wanted to use cecla for "launch" rather than renro, but it is missing a
> place for "at your head."  How can you fit that in there?

You can use the "ka'a" modal tag, which comes from "klama"; "se ka'a"
means "to destination":

    mi cecla lo rokci se ka'a le do stedu

    I launch a rock towards your head

(I could be wrong though; I haven't used modals much.)

--
george.foot@merton.oxford.ac.uk