Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:29:34 +0000
Reply-To:     george.foot@merton.oxford.ac.uk
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
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From:         George Foot <george.foot@MERTON.OXFORD.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: A First Words in Lojban
To:           Multiple recipients of list LOJBAN <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
Message-ID: <903663136.205587.1@listserv.cuny.edu>
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coi rodo

la brendan cusku lu

> I have just started learning Lojban.  And so for a first foray I am trying
> to translate the following:
>
> Hello.  My name is Brendan.
>
> After reading the grammar.txt that came inside an archive with introductory
> text I have come up with the following:
>
> mi rinsa do mi cmene Brendan do

That's not grammatical; if you meant to write two bridi you should
separate them:

    mi rinsa do .i mi cmene brendan do

> Hello:
>         mi rinsa do - Which seems pretty formal.  So it could be changed to
> "mi rinsa z'oe" not much less formal.  My next guess is that the last sumti
> can be removed because "you" should be obvious.  In the same vein "mi" is
> not really necessary because I'm saying hello.  I wouldn't say "I say
> Hello."  So I end up with "rinsa".  Am I even close?

AFAIK if you just say "rinsa" it's an observative, which is like
you're pointing out to someone that a greeting is happening.

By saying "mi rinsa do" I think you're getting the message across,
but as you say it seems formal.  The normal way to say "Hello" is to
use the cmavo "coi" which is a vocative meaning "Greetings" or
"Hello".

> My name is Brendan:
>         mi cmene Brendan do - Again I feel that the last sumti is not really
> necessary here.  While I can see a case for dropping the initial sumti I
> don't think that is correct.  I wouldn't say "Name Brendan," but "My name is
> Brendan."  So this one ends up being "mi cmene Brendan".  How is that?

No, you got the place structure of "cmene" wrong.  The first place is
the name, the second is the entity described.  Try one of:  "mi se
cmene brendan.", "mi selcmene brendan.", "mi selme'e brendan.".
"selcmene" and "selme'e" are lujvo both meaning "x1 is named x2 by x3".

Again though there's a simpler way -- the cmavo "mi'e" is a (slightly
unusual) vocative meaning "my name is".  Vocatives are often followed
by names (so I can say "coi .brendan."); the name is normally that of
the person addressed.  The unusual thing about "mi'e" is that the
name is that of the speaker (so you would say "mi'e .brendan.").

Vocatives are very useful -- it's well worth finding out more about
them.

> Hello.  My name is Brendan:
>         rinsa mi cmene Brendan - Hmmm...  Perhaps this is the specter of my
> English teacher mother guiding me but as a neophyte in Lojban I don't see a
> clear break between the first sentence and the next.  Perhaps it should be
> "rinsa vau mi cmene Brendan".

It still doesn't work; you need to use ".i" to separate the two
bridi.  Whenever you're unsure, run it through the parser (if you
have it) and check its output is what you would expect.  It will fill
in all the elidable terminators so you can check that when you elide
them it still knows where they should go.

The normal way to say this is "coi mi'e brendan".

> Also, could someone help me translate my signature into Lojban?  In English
> it means:  I have a catapult.  Give me all your money or I will throw a big
> rock at your head.

I'll give it a go...

> Catapultam habeo.  Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum
> immane mittam.

    mi ponse le rokci renro .i ko dunda fi mi le do jdini .ija mi ca
    renro lo bardi rokci le do stedu

"I possess a rock type-of thrower.  (imperative) You give to me your
money or I (future) throw some large type-of rock towards your head."
Or both, in fact; you could still throw the rock even if you were
given the money. :)

"rokci renro" here means "rock thrower".  "seldanti" might be a
better word for catapult but it's not specific; it would just mean
some kind of launching weapon.  Perhaps "rokci seldanti". "ro'ire'o"
would be a nice lujvo for catapult -- it sounds nice. :)  I don't
think you're meant to create lujvo casually though.


co'o mi'e djifut