From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Mon Sep 16 08:56:27 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 16 Sep 2002 15:56:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 51497 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2002 15:56:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2002 15:56:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2002 15:56:27 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:24:35 +0100 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:56:49 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:56:34 +0100 To: lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I like chocolate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810630 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin xorxes: #la pycyn cusku di'e #[lo pixra be lo'e sincrboa] #>Sorry, I thought you meant an accurate picture of a generic boa, because, #>once you get away from that, it gets hard to keep up the claim that it is= a #>pictue of a generic boa rather than something else that it is an accurate #>picture of. # #Right. I don't want to claim that there is anything that it is #a picture of. I don't want to make the claim: {da poi ... zo'u #ta pixra da}.=20 Why exactly don't you want to make that claim? There's certainly a sense in which the picture could depict a particular boa that even if it doesn't exist in this world, exists in another world (that the picture is a window onto). Here I see no problem with {da}, as long as there is appropriate use of {ka'e} or {su'o mu'ei} or suchlike.=20 This is the sort of situation that would arise in describing a picture of Sherlock: I don't think we should be forced to say {pixra lo'e -detective} -- {pixra le ka'e -detective} (or=20 le su'o mu'ei -detective} is much better. But there's another sense of "picture of a" not so happily covered by the above alternative. For example, "on the taskbar button on my email software there is a picture of a diskette" -- here I certainly don't want to say that there is a diskette that exists in some worlds that may or may not include this one, and that is depicted by the taskbar button. Rather, I mean something like the pattern on the taskbar button has the visual aspects of the property of=20 diskettehood. Something like {ta ckaji zei pixra tu'o du'u ce'u -diskette}, with {ckaji zei pixra} defined as "has visual aspects of property x2". This is much more like the case you've been talking about, but I am yet to be persuaded that it calls for {lo'e}. --And.