Received: from spooler by stryx.demon.co.uk (Mercury/32 v2.01); 30 Nov 98 23:46:55 +0000 Return-path: Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net (194.217.242.34) by stryx.demon.co.uk (Mercury/32 v2.01); 30 Nov 98 23:46:49 +0000 Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ia@stryx.demon.co.uk id 912438198:10:15153:11; Mon, 30 Nov 98 15:03:18 GMT Received: from pop.onelist.com ([209.207.164.31]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1119478; 30 Nov 98 15:02 GMT Received: (qmail 8283 invoked by alias); 30 Nov 1998 15:02:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 8260 invoked from network); 30 Nov 1998 15:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO locke.ccil.org) (192.190.237.102) by pop.onelist.com with SMTP; 30 Nov 1998 15:02:06 -0000 Received: from locke.ccil.org (slip-32-100-253-56.ny.us.ibm.net [32.100.253.56]) by locke.ccil.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26056 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:31:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3662B345.7D95F4B1@locke.ccil.org> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:01:25 -0500 From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) To: Lojban List Mailing-List: list lojban@onelist.com; contact lojban-owner@onelist.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@onelist.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------46BB6A34C1C9388B06333076" Subject: [lojban] [Fwd: UNL, Lojban and MLHT] X-PMFLAGS: 570949760 7 1 Y07756.CNM Content-Length: 3105 Lines: 90 From: John Cowan This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------46BB6A34C1C9388B06333076 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forwarded for Hartmut Pilch, who's having trouble sending to Lojban List. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) --------------46BB6A34C1C9388B06333076 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.camelot.de (root@mail.camelot.de [195.30.224.10]) by locke.ccil.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA10614 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:09:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from robin.camelot.de (uucp@robin.camelot.de [195.30.224.3]) by mail.camelot.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15018; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:40:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oas.a2e.de!oas.a2e.de!phm@camelot.de) Received: from oas.a2e.de (uucp@localhost) by robin.camelot.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id MAA15013; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:40:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oas.a2e.de!oas.a2e.de!phm) Received: from localhost by wtao97 with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0zjND0-000RiCC; Fri, 27 Nov 98 13:41 CET Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:41:14 +0100 (CET) From: PILCH Hartmut X-Sender: phm@wtao97.oas To: John Cowan cc: Lojban List Subject: UNL, Lojban and MLHT In-Reply-To: <365AFBA4.4AB625E0@locke.ccil.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, John Cowan wrote: > Sounds pretty crude and primitive compared to Lojban. Why not outperform the UNL vaporware then? Could a Lojban parser output intelligible English some day? That would get Lojban really off the ground. Even learning would be made much much easier. Btw, I am working on an Emacs Lisp MultiLingual HyperText system http://www.lrz.de/~phm/mlht/ which takes a lot of redundancy out of multilingual documentation, and the ultimate aim is of course to have a kind of UNL. But so far not much of the saving is at the grammatical level. I could imagine the following workflow: 1 write a universal language (Lojban) text, 2 run the [prolog] parser, output a lisp representation, 3 run the Lisp2English (or other lang) output formatter Developping interactive editors that help unsophisticated people write in the universal language is a very difficult secondary step. The UNL people are [pretending to be] doing second things first. For the time being it would be enough if sophisticated people can be enabled to "write once --- be understood everywhere". Is Lojban suitable for trying to achieve this? Could any conlang be more suitable than Lojban? -- Hartmut Pilch http://www.a2e.de/phm/ --------------46BB6A34C1C9388B06333076--