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From: C.D.Wright@solipsys.compulink.co.uk
To: lojban@onelist.com
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:45:00 +0000
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Subject: [lojban] Re: talsa
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From: C.D.Wright@solipsys.compulink.co.uk

coi rodo


And following on from my previous post, here is my hack
at translating xorxes' reply ...

The original main body of text, reformatted:

  i le do velcki cu stidi lo ka'e danfu 
  i mu'a lu xoda xadni do li'u cumki
  ija lu xoda xadni le pa sevzi be do li'u 
  i ta'o pe'i no remna bangu cu jitri'u le nu sidbo cusku 

Again, analysing one sentence at a time ...

============================================================
({le <do velcki>} cu {stidi <lo [ka'e danfu]>})
    le         the described
      do         you
      velcki     +4th conversion+explain
  cu         selbri separator
    stidi      suggest
      lo         the really is
        ka'e       innately capable of
        danfu      answer

Translation: Your explanation suggests there is an answer.

I don't understand the use of "ka'e" in this position.
I'm also a little confused by  "le do velcki".  Looking up 
my gismu,

"cki = ciksi" : explain                                   
                x1 (person)
                  explains x2 (event/state/property)
                  to x3
                  with explanation x4

so "velcki"   : explanation
                x1 is an explanation
                  of x2 (event/state/property)
                  to x3
                  by x4 (person)

Now, what does  "le do velcki"  mean?  Clearly the "do" is intended
as a possessive, but  "do velcki"  means  "you are an explanation",
so why should  "le do velcki"  mean  "your explanation", which is,
semantically, clearly the intent?

============================================================
(mu'a {<lu [(xo da) (xadni do)] li'u> cumki})
  mu'a       for example
      lu         quote
          xo         number ?
          da         something 1
          xadni      body
          do         you
      li'u       end quote
    cumki      possible

I haven't got as far as understanding "da" at all.  The entry
from my cmavo list is ...

da : something 1                               
  logically quantified existential pro-sumti: 
  there exists something 1 (usually restricted)

Does  "xoda xadni"  mean  "xo xadni"  with the "da" taking
the value of the answer?  Does that make sense?  "xadni"
only takes two sumti, so which is the x1?

xadni/xad : body : x1 is a/the body/corpus/corpse of x2

============================================================
ja lu xoda xadni le pa sezvi be do li'u 
(ja {lu <[xo da] [xadni (le {pa <sezvi [be do]>})]> li'u})
  ja         tanru or
    lu         quote
        xo         number ?
        da         something 1
        xadni      body
          le         the described
            pa         1
              sezvi      self
                be         link sumti
                do         you
    li'u       end quote


Again, I'm confused by the "pa".  Here, the x2 of  "xadni"
is  "(le {pa <sezvi [be do]>})", and I'm lost in trying to
translate  "pa sezvi be do"

============================================================
({ta'o pe'i} {<no [remna bangu]> cu <jitri'u [le (nu {sidbo 
cusku})]>})
    ta'o       by the way
    pe'i       I opine
      no         0
        remna      human
        bangu      language
    cu         selbri separator
      jitri'u    +limit+restrain
        le         the described
          nu         event abstract
            sidbo      idea
            cusku      express

Translation:  As an aside, in my opinion no human language
              limits the expression of ideas.

Personally, I disagree.  I believe that *all* languages
limit the expression of ideas, but are generally flexible 
enough to permit a back-and-forth to communicate meaning.


co'o mi'e kolin.

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