X-Digest-Num: 47
Message-ID: <44114.47.167.959273824@eGroups.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:50:55 -0300
From: "=?US-ASCII?Q?Jorge_J._Llamb=EDas?=" <jorge@intermedia.com.ar>
Subject: Re: meaning question
X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 167
Content-Length: 2182
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>From: "Steven D. Arnold" <yami@dementian.com>
>
>compare;  x1 [observer] compares x2 with x3 in property x4 (ka),
determining
>comparison x5 (state)
>
>I do not understand what is meant by "determining comparison."  Is this
used
>to say which side is greater or less?  Or what?


I think the best way to understand these things is by trying some examples.
This is how I would use this predicate:

    mi karbi la djan la alis le ka ce'u mitre makau kei le nu la alis zmadu
la djan
    "I compare John with Alice in what is their measure in meters and
determine
    that Alice is more than John."

Obviously, I could be more precise by including the direction of measurment.
Also, it is obvious that the x3 of zmadu, the property in which Alice is
more
than John, is the same as the x4 of karbi, the property I'm comparing.

    mi karbi le plise le perli le kamkukte le nu dunli
    "I compare the apple with the pear in their deliciousness determining
    that they're equal."

Instead of {le kamkukte} I could have used {le ka ce'u kukte kei} to be more
precise. It is also obvious that the x1 and x2 of dunli in this case are
the x2 and x3 of karbi, so there's no need to spell it out.

    mi karbi le tsani le xamsi le ka ce'u skari makau kei le nu frica
    "I compare the sky with the sea in what colour they are, determining
    that they're different."

Or I could just use {le kamskari} instead of {le ka ce'u skari makau kei}.

I think that the x5 always has to be a comparison state (zmadu, mleca,
dunli, mintu, frica, mapti etc and lujvo based on those), and then the
property of comparison in all of those predicates will allways be the
same as the x4 of karbi. I'm not sure I understand Lojbab's example
with membership of a group as the x5. I would like to see the actual
Lojban for it.

Also the x4 and x5 of karbi might be useful to use directly. For example:

      le blanu cu zmadu le crino ro le ve karbi
      "The blue one surpassed the green one in every regard."

      le xe karbi cu stidi le nu le cutci cu se ponse le nixli
      "The result of the comparison suggests that the shoe belongs
      to the girl."

co'o mi'e xorxes