X-Digest-Num: 72 Message-ID: <44114.72.422.959273824@eGroups.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:27:16 -0500 From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" Subject: Re: lojbo cinmo X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 422 Content-Length: 2128 Lines: 49 At 10:56 AM 2/23/99 +0800, sdlee@cs.hku.hk wrote: >>>>>> "Bob" == Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) writes: >"le logji bangu", by definition, expresses that it is the speaker's >own SUBJECTIVE opinion that this language is "logical". This is not correct, though your following sentence is: >The speaker >may, if he likes, use "le logji bangu" to refer to something that is >not a language and not a logical thing at all. There need not be anything subjective about a statement with "le". The use of "le" means that the sumti being referred to is being "described as", and this description may be a matter of convenience rather than of subjectivity. There is certainly nothing about "le logji bangu" that requires someone to hold any opinion about Lojban's logicality, merely that s/he feels that that description will help the listener identify what is being talked about. > Bob> The phrase "the logical language Lojban" strikes me more as > Bob> being an adjectival phrase, helping people to recall that > Bob> Lojban is both a language and purports to have something to > Bob> do with logic, rather than being a claim that no other > Bob> language is logical. > >This is different. "The logical language Lojban" is different from >"the logical language". The articles in these 2 phrases have >different semantic effects. Without context, the latter would be used >to refer to the ONLY logical language of the world, implying that >there are no other logical languages. The former, on the other hand, >just means "the logical language which is called Lojban", with the >implication that there are other logical languages which have >different names. English is ambiguous between the two semantic interpretations - one cannot make implications that there are or are not other logical languages without context. >Compare "The logical language Lojban" with "Lojban, the logical >language". Are they different? Compare the latter with "Lojban, a >logical language". Any difference? Not much in the absence of context. lojbab