X-Digest-Num: 55 Message-ID: <44114.55.215.959273824@eGroups.com> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 19:58:28 +0200 From: Robin Turner Subject: Re: rights (2) X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 215 Content-Length: 3721 Lines: 85 la xod. cusku di'e > ka'u might be thrown in too, in the context of human culture. In the US > Declaration of Independence se'o might have been more appropriate, since > that was based on rights issued by God. {se'o} seems like a good rendering of "self-evident" - it has a kind of Kantian ring to it. However, I'm not sure how some of the American revolutionaries would have reacted to the idea that these rights were issued by God. If I remember rightly (there ought to be an attitudinal for that!), the phrase "Nature's God" was thrown in as a kind of Deist compromise between the atheists and the Christians. In fact, if you wanted to express the idea that rights came from God, {ju'o} would be more appropriate, the root being {djuno} with religion filling the epistomology place {ta'o .e'ocaizo'o la'edi'u na'e mukti lenu lenu malmi'o zo djuno darlu kei ba rapli} co'o mi'e robin. From sdlee@cs.hku.hk (Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~}) Sun Feb 7 19:13:59 1999 X-Digest-Num: 55 Message-ID: <44114.55.216.959273824@eGroups.com> Date: 08 Feb 1999 11:13:59 +0800 From: sdlee@cs.hku.hk (Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~}) Subject: Re: Lojban Accent X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 216 >>>>> "Robin" == Robin Turner writes: Robin> Change in volume is probably universal; change in stress Robin> and intonation is probably not. Speakers of tonal Robin> languages often have problems speaking English because they Robin> sound "flat" or "singsong" and thus, to English ears, Robin> unemotional. This is because most speakers of tonal language do not understand the concept of "word stress" well. The Westerners and teachers tell them it is "stress", without explaining clearly what physical properties distinguishes a stressed and an unstressed syllable. So, they have to rely on their own observeration to tell what stress is. Because of the tonal nature of their mother tongues, they tend to be more sensitive to the differences in pitch levels, and they tend to ignore the durations, loudness and the possible variations of pitch-levels of the stressed syllables. That's why their accents sound flat and singsong. That pitch-level cannot be varied freely is so incarned into their brains that they simply ignore such variations made by the Westerners. As a result, the memorize word stress positions using the same methods as they memorize word tones in their native tongues. Very often, they simply interpret "word stress" as the differences in pitch (but not loudness nor duration), i.e. a synonym of "tone". Robin> If Lojban were widely used as an auxiliary languages, such Robin> intercultural misunderstandings would probably still occur, Robin> but would be ameliorated by the use of attitudinal Robin> indicators. Yeah. Intonational indicators in English (and most European languages) are not well documented. Even textbooks would not mention too much about how to intonations correctly. Too often, the learner has to rely on his own listening skills. However, most learners are not trained by linguists. They are trained by their mother tongues. So, it is not suprising that they tend to ignore differences that are not made in their mother tongues, and they tend to overemphasize subtle differences that are vital in their mother tongues. -- Lee Sau Dan §õ¦u´°(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ) .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | http://www.cs.hku.hk/~sdlee e-mail: sdlee@cs.hku.hk | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------'