X-Digest-Num: 67 Message-ID: <44114.67.311.959273824@eGroups.com> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:49:45 +0800 From: Lin Zhemin Subject: Re: Dao De Jing [was Re: Promoting Lojban] X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 311 Content-Length: 1850 Lines: 43 Before all, I'd say that, it isn't intellegible to translate something like Daodejing into Lojban... First, there is one more ancient version found in Mawangdui, and experts are trying to understand it. And then, since there is no punctuations in ancient Chinese, the _true_ meaning is impossible to be understood. Third, since Lojban derives from _logic_, which is a result of social working of ancient Greeks, it is _incompatible_ with the system of Daodejing. You just cannot understand many ancient Chinese things by logic; that'll be illogic. Sat, 20 Feb 1999, zo Robin Turner(robin@Bilkent.EDU.TR) cusku di'e > {.u'i} If you're translating the first line of the Dao De Jing, I'm not sure {fatci} is > the best translation of "chang" which is usually rendered as "eternal" (though that > doesn't really give the idea either!). I would hazard: _Chang_, means frequent, eternal, not modifiable, definite, etc. It is very hard to translate it into occidental languages. Tradutore tracidore. > If I understand "dao ke dao fei chang dao" correctly (and who can say that they do?) it is It can mean: 1) The Dao which is able to be discussed is not the very Dao. 2) The Dao which is able to be discussed is not the eternity. (the law of nature, in other words.) 3) The Dao is able to be discussed, but it is not the regularity of the world. However, according to those experts, it is not suitable to translate them into modern Chinese, as described as: The Dao is able to be discussed, and it is an extreme Dao. And you're right. There isn't just no one can say that they understand it. And this indication itself is not understandable by Logic. -- .e'osai ko sarji la lojban. ==> 請支持邏輯語言。 co'o mi'e lindjy,min. ==> 再見，我是林哲民。 Fingerprint20 = CE32 D237 02C0 FE31 FEA9 B858 DE8F AE2D D810 F2D9