X-Digest-Num: 121 Message-ID: <44114.121.693.959273824@eGroups.com> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:49:26 -0400 From: John Cowan Subject: Re: mut X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 693 Content-Length: 2316 Lines: 59 Alex Leith wrote (what is your Loglan name, please?): > Mi danza ia, supo lo logli ze lo lojbi fua kintaa. I muu fa suksi tio duo > hu? Okay, in Lojban that would be: mi djica .ie su'o nu loi .loglan. zei prenu joi loi lojpre ta'e casnu .i ma'a ba snada la'e di'u pu'e ma All the words are different except "mi" and "i", but the grammar is the same except for the following differences (in Loglan terminology) 1. Lojban doesn't have declensions, which were introduced into Loglan after the split. (LLG comment: "Does one decline "godzi" when the goer is male vs. female? If not, why not?"). Instead, we use the obvious complexes: "lojpre" = "lojbo prenu" = "Lojbanic person", expending one letter but saving on conceptual machinery. There is no prim for "Loglandic" in Lojban, so we make a pseudo-complex with the LW "zei", which binds together the two surrounding words (only), producing a complex even if (as is the case) one of them is a name. The metaphor "me la loglan. prenu" would work too. 2. I'm not sure why you didn't use the prim "dislu" (Lojban "casnu") rather than a complex; the equivalent Lojban complex is "kanta'a". 3. There is no separate LW for the referents of just-spoken sentences. Instead, we use the LW for the sentence itself, prefixed by "la'e" ("lae" in Loglan) to get the referent. This would work in Loglan too. 4. There are several plausible translations for "duo" in Lojban: I have chosen "by process" rather than "by method". And if you don't like the apostrophes, it is possible to live without them for the most part: they basically indicate which VV pairs are two syllables and which are not. Lojban does use both "a'i" and "ai", etc.; pronounce the apostrophe as "h" (which Lojban does not have). > To which I'd say: > Ea muo togri !! > Let us (= speaker + audience + others, acting individually) agree !!! That is "e'u lu'a ma'a tugni", where "lu'a" converts what follows to individuals; "ma'a" is inherently a mass. Loglan->Lojban terminology map: prim<->gismu, complex<->lujvo, LW (little word)<->cmavo. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5)