X-Digest-Num: 133
Message-ID: <44114.133.812.959273824@eGroups.com>
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 18:07:47 -0700
From: Ivan A Derzhanski <iad@math.bas.bg>
Subject: Re: pamoi xatra
X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 812
Content-Length: 1345
Lines: 34

I'm too busy to follow this discussion as closely
as I might have liked, but here's ma pennyworth. ...

Robin Turner wrote:
[re {mi ctuca mi}]
> I'd use {cilre} or {tadni} rather than {ctuca} - "teach
> yourself" is really an English idiom which doesn't go
> that well into Lojban, I think (I don't know if there's
> a Russian equivalent).

It works better in English than in Russian.  I wouldn't
call it an idiom, though -- _teach oneself_ does mean
something that _study on one's own_ doesn't, so {ctuca}
with x1=x2 makes perfect sense to me, under the assumption
that {ctuca}, as its conventional English counterpart,
implies performing a very specific teaching process
of which the recipient can exceptionally (!) be the
same person as the agent.

In that sense the natlangs that use a causative of `study' or
`learn' for `teach' are being rather imprecise -- a parent
can cause a child to study/learn his lesson by various methods,
but that's not the same thing as teaching.

-- 
`Zhi1  ren2  zhe3  zhi4,    zi4  zhi1  zhe3  ming2.  (Lao2zi, _DDJ_:
 Sheng4 ren2 zhe3 you3 li4, zi4 sheng4 zhe3 qiang2.'  di4 33 zhang1)
Ivan A Derzhanski                     <http://www.math.bas.bg/~iad/>
H: cplx Iztok bl 91, 1113 Sofia, Bulgaria          <iad@math.bas.bg>
W: Dept for Math Lx, Inst for Maths & CompSci, Bulg Acad of Sciences