X-Digest-Num: 154
Message-ID: <44114.154.915.959273824@eGroups.com>
Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:17:34 +0300
From: Robin Turner <robin@bilkent.edu.tr>
Subject: Re: Well...
X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 915
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WorldMaker wrote:

> Hello, I'm new here and really intrigued by Lojban.  It seems to me that
> the major problem is the lack of a sufficient vocabulary...  Has anyone
> thought about going through Abridged/Pocket Dictionary and making a list
> of needed words?

To clarify a few points arising from other replies (forgive me if I'm being
too basic, but you said you were new to Lojban) ....

When Lojbanists use the word "metaphor" they can mean one of four things:

1.  An unmarked culture-specific metaphor, such as using "heart" to mean
"soul", or literally translating "look up" meaning "research".  This is
strongly disapproved of in Lojban - {risna} means heart as a physical organ,
and for "soul" or "emotional self" you would use {pruxi} or {cnisei}.

2.  An unmarked "permitted" metaphor.  Some gismu have mildly metaphorical
uses written into the definition as a way of extending the range of the word.
For example, the entry for {nirna} reads:

x1 is a nerve/neuron [body-part] of x2; [metaphor: information/control network
connection]

These are rare, though,  and some people have serious doubts about them.

3.  A metaphor marked with {pe'a}.  This can be anything you like - {pe'a}
indicates that what follows should not be taken literally.

4.  A tanru i.e. a combination of words such that they limit each other in a
specific was.  For example "the world maker" would be {le munje zbasu} - the
world-type-of maker/builder.  This obviously has very little to do with
metaphor as the word is commonly understood, and I don't actually call tanru
"metaphors" myself.

With tanru you can express almost any concept, but the result can be wordy and
ambiguous.  What I think you're looking for is lujvo - compound words derived
from tanru.  You need a fairly good knowledge of Lojban to construct lujvo
accurately (I still make impossible lujvo sometimes) but there is a good list
of pre-made lujvo available at the Lojban website.


>  What about embarking on larger translation works, for
> instance an H. G. Wells or Jules Verne novel?  (Both of which should be
> public domain).  Or even a more relevant translation of computer terms and
> manuals (Linux manuals are usually public domain)?

Again, if you look at the lujvo list, you'll find a lot of computer-related
vocabulary - the problem is that computer terminology changes so rapidly.  A
Lojban translation of a Linux manual would be a major propaganda coup
(especially since the kind of people who are into Linux are often the kind of
people who would be interested in Lojban) and would generate lots of useful
lujvo, but it would be a hell of a lot of work.  I'm trying to install Linux
at the moment, and I have a hard time understanding the English manuals!

>
> --WorldMaker--
> (wyrldmaiker?)

Probably {.uyrldmeikr.} , though my Lojban phonology is notoriously bad ;-).
Alternatively translate it with a lujvo like {munjyzba}.

co'o mi'e robin.