X-Digest-Num: 277
Message-ID: <44114.277.1549.959273825@eGroups.com>
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 20:43:02 +0200
From: Robin Turner <robin@bilkent.edu.tr>
Subject: gasnu
X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 1549
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coi rodo

I'm currently working on Lesson 8 of the beginners' course, which
deals with cause and effect.  Most of it is concerned with rinka,
mukti, krinu, nibli and their respective BAI modals, but at one
point I digress into how, if at all, Lojbanistanis would render
the English sentence

John made me hit him.

In an elegant piece of sophistry I argue that the only way to
give even a close approximation of this is through the dark art
of sumti-raising e.g.

tu'a la djon. mukti lenu mi darxe vo'a

The point I want to make is that English uses "make" in a vague
and often irrational way, and the best thing is not to translate
it but to think about what actual events we are referring to
(e.g. {mi darxe la djon. mu'i lenu ri mi'afra mi}).

However, there is also the possibility of using {gasnu}.  I would
argue that

la djon. gasnu lenu mi darxe vo'a

is malglico, and that {gasnu} is simply the agentive version of
{rinka}, but I'd like to hear opinions from others on this list.

co'o mi'e robin.