From sentto-44114-1831-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Sun Jan 23 17:38:46 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 8675 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 17:38:45 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 17:38:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 19415 invoked by uid 40001); 23 Jan 2000 17:40:19 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 19412 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 17:40:18 -0000 Received: from hh.egroups.com (208.48.218.10) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 17:40:18 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-1831-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.36] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Jan 2000 17:40:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 6471 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 17:40:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.10.36 with QMQP; 23 Jan 2000 17:40:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.237.133) by 10.1.10.27 with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 17:40:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 60259 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 2000 17:40:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20000123174017.60258.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.41.247.35 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:40:17 PST X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.35] To: lojban@onelist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@onelist.com; contact lojban-owner@onelist.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@onelist.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:40:17 PST From: "Jorge Llambias" Subject: Re: [lojban] Subjunctive? Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Jorge Llambias" la pycyn cusku di'e >The virtues of puba and bapu are just that they don't tell us how the event >is related to now, which is sometimes useful, when we don't know exactly: >"He will have arrived by morning" (and for all I know is arrived already), >etc. I would say: ko'a baba'o tolcliva ca le cerni He will have arrived in the morning. That says nothing of whether he has already arrived. I don't think bapu would work at all here, because of the connection with "ca le cerni". "ca le cerni" would either have to be the start of the imaginary journey, which would mean that the arrival could be later than that, which we don't want. Or "ca le cerni" would have to coincide with the end of the imaginary journey, which puts the arrival exactly at the morning, which again is not the meaning we want. >Most of the other compounds mirror the needs of a language >which has obligatory tense, so needs compounds to move about in a >narrative, >as Lojban does not -- or not nearly so often. I don't know... Compounds with "ca" are just redundant. "capu" means exactly the same as "puca" and as just "pu". That leaves only "pupu" and "baba". I don't think there's anything like "baba" in English. The only one that could be like something in English is "pupu", but in narratives, which is mostly where this could come up, the convention is that the tense takes as reference the time of the previous sentence instead of the speaker's time, so a double pu is not needed even there. co'o mi'e xorxes ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com