From sentto-44114-1855-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Thu Jan 27 00:52:34 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 2224 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2000 00:52:32 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 27 Jan 2000 00:52:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 10745 invoked by uid 40001); 27 Jan 2000 00:53:51 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 10741 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2000 00:53:51 -0000 Received: from fk.egroups.com (208.48.218.17) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 27 Jan 2000 00:53:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-1855-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.35] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2000 00:53:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 27671 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2000 00:53:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.10.35 with QMQP; 27 Jan 2000 00:53:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.36) by 10.1.10.26 with SMTP; 27 Jan 2000 00:53:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 26257 invoked by uid 0); 27 Jan 2000 00:53:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20000127005347.26256.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.41.247.34 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:53:47 PST X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.34] To: lojban@onelist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@onelist.com; contact lojban-owner@onelist.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@onelist.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:53:47 PST From: "Jorge Llambias" Subject: Re: Fwd: [lojban] Subjunctive? Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Jorge Llambias" la xod cusku di'e > > (2) ganai mi ponse lo megdo rupnu gi mi pindi > > "Either I don't have a million dollars, or I am poor." > > > > That is also true. I don't have a million dollars, so > > no matter what I put as the second term the sentence > > will be true. > >It's not true in the general case; it does not fit TFTT, as a conditional >should, because in reality, millionaires are not called poor. What are you calling the "general case"? There is nothing general about that sentence, it is about one definite person and a definite amount of money. What you seem to be thinking about is something like "for all x, either x does not have a million dollars or x is poor". I agree that sentence is false. But sentence (2) above is true, there is no "general case" of that sentence unless you start talking about quantifying over possible worlds or things like that. >Specifically: > >A:"I am a millionaire" B:"I am poor" A-->B (is A-->B really) > > T T T F > T F F T A is false, so A->B is true. That's that. If you are considering cases where A is true, then you are either talking of a different "I", not me, and therefore not the same sentence, or you are talking of a different world, not this real one, where I do have a million dollars. In either case you need to do something more than the bare true statement: ganai mi ponse lo megdo rupnu gi mi pindi co'o mi'e xorxes ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Looking for the lowest refinance rate for your mortgage? GetSmart.com can help. We'll help you find the loan you need - quick, easy, and FREE click Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com