From sentto-44114-2016-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Fri Feb 18 22:34:50 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 5839 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2000 22:34:48 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 18 Feb 2000 22:34:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 17839 invoked by uid 40001); 18 Feb 2000 22:37:43 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 17836 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2000 22:37:42 -0000 Received: from fj.egroups.com (208.48.218.16) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 18 Feb 2000 22:37:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-2016-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.37] by fj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2000 22:37:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 26239 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2000 22:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.10.37 with QMQP; 18 Feb 2000 22:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy.cais.net) (199.0.216.101) by 10.1.10.27 with SMTP; 18 Feb 2000 22:37:39 -0000 Received: from bob (dynamic197.cais.com [207.226.56.197]) by stmpy.cais.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10472; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:36:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000218171638.00afc810@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 To: "Robert A. McIvor" , Steven Belknap , "Rex F. May" Cc: loglanists@ucsd.edu, logli@ucsd.edu, lojban@onelist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@onelist.com; contact lojban-owner@onelist.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@onelist.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:37:06 -0500 From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" Subject: Re: [lojban] Dr. James Cooke Brown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" Oops, I hit send too quickly. I had a At 03:41 PM 02/18/2000 -0500, Robert A. McIvor wrote: >... [last post] > >There is no complete dictionary of predicates. > >There has been for years a computerized dictionary not only of predicates >but of most currently used words. I cannot say 'all' as writers can add to >the list at any time, and new versions of the dictionary come out only >occasionally. I believe Loglan is ahead of Lojban in this regard. We can hope that some form of this becomes available on the web page. All parts of our draft dictionary are so available. > >> I don't think there exists a full grammer. At least I haven't seen one. > >There is a published grammar which is conflict free in YACC, and which >parses all currently well-formed Loglan sentences. I believe it is published >on the Loglan web site. The posted grammar is Trial 80 from 1994. The posted YACC grammar does not include the lexer/preparser, which contains (or hides) a substantial amount of grammar. As of the last version I had access to (and Trial 80's comments suggest that this is true), I could write any random string of LWs (cmavo), precede it by a word for a number and omit the space, and the entirety becomes a number compound. Likewise for a tense and probably some other compounds. In effect it means that there is no number or tense grammar since not all spaces are lexemic pauses. I understand that you RAM have tried to do some work on this problem, but it seems to be a large problem with unknowable side effects until the result is seen. More than half of the Lojban grammar is the YACC-encoded lexer grammar and the MEX grammar which in our case is no longer primarily a lexer construct, and a large percentage of our changes during the years before baselining involved the working out of bugs in that grammar. I think it is the undefinedness of the tense and MEX grammar and other compounds that most Lojbanists mean when they refer to the TLI Loglan grammar being incomplete. >I suppose > >one could simply make a new Loglan which is identical to lojban in > >grammer, but has the Loglan words instead. That would be nearly > >painless for Loglanders and would be fairly straightforward. > > > Since Loglan is not baselined, I am sure we would accept changes >to the grammar that we could be convinced were desirable for whatever >reason. That is indeed an approach. Technically, you could adopt Lojban in its entirety as a global change to the language and it would be legitimate. I won't hold my breath. zo'o (soi crano) lojbab ---- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org (newly updated!) --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com