From sentto-44114-1904-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Thu Feb 03 14:35:10 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 12420 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2000 14:35:09 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 3 Feb 2000 14:35:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 23505 invoked by uid 40001); 3 Feb 2000 14:37:00 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 23502 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2000 14:36:59 -0000 Received: from hl.egroups.com (208.48.218.14) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 3 Feb 2000 14:36:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-1904-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.36] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2000 14:36:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 10649 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2000 14:36:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.10.36 with QMQP; 3 Feb 2000 14:36:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.34) by mta1.onelist.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2000 14:36:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 18577 invoked by uid 0); 3 Feb 2000 14:36:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20000203143654.18576.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.128.10.26 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 03 Feb 2000 06:36:54 PST X-Originating-IP: [12.128.10.26] To: lojban@onelist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@onelist.com; contact lojban-owner@onelist.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@onelist.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 06:36:54 PST From: "Jorge Llambias" Subject: Re: [lojban] 3 loafs Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Jorge Llambias" la ivAn cusku di'e >sklyanin@pdmi.ras.ru wrote: > > [1] lo pa nanmu cu xagji > > [2] .i te vecnu lo pa barda bliku be lo nanba gi'e citka > > [3] .i ku'i ca'o xagji > >I'd abbreviate {lo pa} to either just {lo} or just {pa}.++ Actually, {lo pa nanmu} is "at least one of the one and only man that there is", so it should be {pa nanmu} or {pa lo nanmu} (or {lo nanmu}). Also it should be {pa barda bliku}, or {pa lo barda bliku}, not {lo pa}. On the other hand, I think this is one of those rare cases where we should use {le} in Lojban even though "the" is not used in English. {pa nanmu cu xagji} is a general statement about the world, (probably a false statement) not a statement starting a story about a certain man. >{ca'o xagji} `he is continuously hungry': doesn't {co'unai} >get the point across better? I think {co'unai} is not currently grammatical (though I think it should be). Another possibility is {za'o xagji}. He continues to be hungry even though (presumably) he should no longer be hungry. > > [4] .i te vecnu lo remoi bliku gi'e citka > > [5] .i ku'i ca'o xagji > > [6] .i te vecnu lo cimoi bliku gi'e citka > > [7] .i ku'i ca'o xagji > >How do we say `one more' (English `another one') in Lojban? {lo drata}. You mean as a number? I don't know. > > [11] .i .uinai mi pu fesygau le ba'e so'i nanba ki'u ma > >A rhetorical question in the original. It may not be a >good idea to phrase it as a question in the translation. >All he's doing is state that he's eaten (too) many loaves >in vain. Should rhetorical questions be banished from Lojban? The idea is, I suppose, that the answer is so obvious that it need not be given. Is this so illogical that it doesn't belong in Lojban? They could be marked with {paunai} if necessary. > > [12] .i .ei mi pu gasnu le nu le pa cmalu djine > > cu pamoi le'i se citka be mi li'u > >I don't quite see why you make him say that he did {gasnu} that. >It's those modalities again. The original goes `I should (just) >have eaten a bagel straight away', which amounts to `In a world >where I act (or things in general go) in the best possible way, >which is a world different from the actual one, I ate(*) a bagel >as soon as I was hungry'. I suppose the idea is that {ei} takes you to the world where things go in the best possible way. Not a bad solution, I think. >(*) Past time, different axis. The form is awkward in English, >but we're talking meta-English here. So {pu} would be right for that. Is {ei} good enough for the world shift? co'o mi'e xorxes ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com