From sentto-44114-2041-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Sun Feb 20 04:37:20 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 7912 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2000 04:37:19 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 20 Feb 2000 04:37:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 6801 invoked by uid 40001); 20 Feb 2000 04:40:21 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 6798 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2000 04:40:20 -0000 Received: from hj.egroups.com (208.48.218.12) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 20 Feb 2000 04:40:20 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-2041-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.37] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2000 04:40:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 28719 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2000 02:19:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.10.37 with QMQP; 20 Feb 2000 02:19:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.pemail2.net) (195.92.25.8) by mta1.onelist.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2000 02:19:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 25376 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2000 02:19:21 -0000 Received: from m409-mp1-cvx1c.lan.ntl.com (HELO andrew) (62.252.173.153) by mailhost.pemail2.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2000 02:19:21 -0000 To: "Ron Hale-Evans" , "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" , "Vjacxeslav' Ivanov'" , "A Rosta" Cc: , , Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <4.3.0.20000218131115.00b391e0@apocalypse.org> Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@onelist.com; contact lojban-owner@onelist.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@onelist.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 02:20:12 -0000 X-eGroups-From: "And Rosta" From: "And Rosta" Subject: RE: RE: Re[2]: [lojban] Dr. James Cooke Brown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "And Rosta" > From: Ron Hale-Evans > > At 02:23 PM 2/18/00 -0500, you wrote: > From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" > > >Incidentally, the latter discussion points out the one problem with the > >"hoa" and "xo'a" introducers of the other language/dialect - while the two > >words look different in print, in speech they would likely be heard as the > >same word in either version, and thus be ineffective at indicating a change > >in dialect. Indeed, in our alternate orthography originally established to > >make rapprochement based on Lojban more attractive to the TLI Loglan > >community, the alternate orthography form of "xo'a" is exactly "hoa". > > > >lojbab > > Why, Bob? Couldn't one treat them as _toggles_ rather than as indicators of > a particular language? In other words, whenever you hear hoa/xo'a, you > switch to the other dialect. IMHO, this would only be a problem if > > 1) Your listener did not already know which dialect you were speaking > (unlikely), or > > 2) There were more than two dialects of Loglan/Lojban. (2) is not on the cards. (1) would apply at the start of a text, and, Lojbab seems to be suggesting. occasionally in the middle. I can think of 3 solutions. 1. Give hoa/xo'a an optional argument, which would specify the language. But that would complicate the grammar considerably. 2. Find a different existing word in each 'dialect' that would bind syntactically to the hoa/xo'a but have semantically innocuous effects. On cursory examination of this option, I can't spot any candidate words, and I suspect it's a nonstarter. 3. Find an additional Little Word doublet that is unassigned in both dialects. Rather than having toggle functions, then, one doublet would introduce Lojban mode and the other would introduce classical mode. This option seems the most hassle-free, but I don't have the relevant wordlists available to assess its viability. --And. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shabang!com is the place to get your FREE eStore, Absolutely FREE Forever. If you have any desires to sell your products or services online, or you want to expand your customer base for FREE, Come check out Shabang!com FREE eStores! http://click.egroups.com/1/1299/1/_/17627/_/951021613/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com