From sentto-44114-2081-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Sat Feb 26 21:17:51 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 19644 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2000 21:17:50 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 26 Feb 2000 21:17:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 24968 invoked by uid 40001); 26 Feb 2000 21:21:12 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 24961 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2000 21:21:11 -0000 Received: from hi.egroups.com (208.48.218.11) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 26 Feb 2000 21:21:11 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-2081-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.39] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2000 21:21:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 11328 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2000 21:21:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m5.onelist.org with QMQP; 26 Feb 2000 21:21:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out.newmail.net) (192.117.188.36) by mta2.onelist.org with SMTP; 26 Feb 2000 21:21:01 -0000 Received: from default ([62.0.165.211]) by out.newmail.net ; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:24:23 +02:00 To: lojban@onelist.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20000220155405.36546.qmail@hotmail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: <95163626401@out.newmail.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@onelist.com; contact lojban-owner@onelist.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@onelist.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:22:49 +0200 X-eGroups-From: "Adam Raizen" From: "Adam Raizen" Reply-To: araizen@newmail.net Subject: Re: [lojban] Translation needed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Adam Raizen" la xorxes cusku di'e > la adam cusku di'e > > >Would there > >be *any* circumstance in which you would use sets, or are le'i, lo'i, > >la'i, ce, etc. just wasted words? > > Just wasted words, in my opinion. There might be rare > circumstances when I might want to talk about sets, but > then I can use a word meaning "x1 is a (mathematical) set > with members x2" or something like that. I find it a waste > to have so many cmavo dedicated to such an abstruse concept. What *is* the word for a mathematical set? The closest I can come up with is "selcmi", but that doesn't require complete specification of the set (and you've also already rejected that zo'o). Consider these two sentences: le'i damba cu daxsi'u lei damba cu daxsi'u In my opinion, the first claims that each member of the group in question hits every other member, while the second only requires that some part of the group hits each other (but that it's presumably significant to mention it of the whole group). If, for example, there are two rival gangs in a brawl, it's obvious that the combatants don't hit members of their own gang, so the "le'i" version isn't correct. I think that the "lei" version expresses the situation well. OTOH, if you want to say that every member of a group performs some action on every other member, using a set is the most clear. Officially, only "le'i" is allowed, but I think that using "lei" opens up interesting and useful distinctions such as this one. i co'o mi'e adam araizen@newmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------- The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. --Robert Heinlein ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at: http://click.egroups.com/1/913/1/_/17627/_/951600062/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com