From sentto-44114-1967-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Thu Feb 10 18:28:36 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 24834 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2000 18:28:35 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 10 Feb 2000 18:28:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 13931 invoked by uid 40001); 10 Feb 2000 18:30:57 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 13928 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2000 18:30:55 -0000 Received: from hh.egroups.com (208.48.218.10) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 10 Feb 2000 18:30:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-1967-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.38] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2000 18:30:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 12890 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2000 18:30:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.10.38 with QMQP; 10 Feb 2000 18:30:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy.cais.net) (199.0.216.101) by 10.1.10.27 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2000 18:30:41 -0000 Received: from bob ([209.8.89.72]) by stmpy.cais.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06971 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:30:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000210132041.00aef600@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 To: The Lojban List In-Reply-To: <38A278DF.2FB4@math.bas.bg> References: <200002071142.LAA19818@euclid.pdmi.ras.ru> <4.2.2.20000208092740.00a27f00@127.0.0.1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@onelist.com; contact lojban-owner@onelist.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@onelist.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:31:04 -0500 From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" Subject: Re: [lojban] And the Eskimos have 100 words for 'Snow Cone' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 10:37 AM 02/10/2000 +0200, Ivan A Derzhanski wrote: >Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) wrote: > > My English Russian disctionary gives yeda as a translation for > > "meal", "repast", and "food". It may not exclusively mean "meal", > >Obviously not. Why, you just noted the meaning `food'. An even >better gloss is `eating'. > >It being the case that there is no actual `meal' word in Russian, >you have to paraphrase. So `prepare a meal' becomes `prepare a >breakfast/lunch/dinner' if the time of day at which the meal is >to be had is known, or `prepare food' (Ru _eda_) otherwise. And >`before/during/after meals' becomes `before/during/after eating' >(likewise Ru _eda_). So there are some occasions in which _eda_ >appears to mean `meal', but that is never the closest English word. Interesting. But on the other hand, if someone asked me to define "sanmi" in Lojban - my first inclination would be to say "nu citka" ("event of eating") so that the matchup is not as bad as you make it sound. Now of course, "meal" is something more than just any old act of eating. It is that eating which takes place according to the customary breakdown of the day "ta'e nu citka". Since you would use "eda" in expressing "before/during/after eating", I would ask how Russians express eating/snacking that occurs between the customary meals of the day. >And then there are those cases in which _eda_ is completely out. >It can't be pluralised, for one thing, so `have 3 meals a day' >must become `eat 3 times a day' before it can be translated. >And `3-course meal' has to become `3-course lunch/dinner', >and if you don't know which one it is, you have to guess >(you may be inaccurate, but you may never be approximate). > > > but certainly sounds like it would belong in a synonym list > > along with an explicit list of meals. > >Something like _{sanmi}: eda, trapeza; zavtrak, obed, uzhin_ >would probably get the point across. Indeed. And this is of course how the English gismu are defined, with multiple synonyms in the "place structure text" which may or may not be exact equivalences of the Lojban word. lojbab ---- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. Rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com