From sentto-44114-1975-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Sun Feb 13 22:27:53 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 29870 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2000 22:27:51 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 13 Feb 2000 22:27:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 24748 invoked by uid 40001); 13 Feb 2000 22:30:18 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 24744 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2000 22:30:17 -0000 Received: from fk.egroups.com (208.48.218.17) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 13 Feb 2000 22:30:17 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-1975-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.39] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2000 22:30:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 30994 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2000 22:30:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.10.39 with QMQP; 13 Feb 2000 22:30:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailhost.pemail2.net) (195.92.25.8) by 10.1.10.27 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2000 22:30:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 22517 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2000 22:30:08 -0000 Received: from m688-mp1-cvx1c.lan.ntl.com (HELO andrew) (62.252.174.176) by mailhost.pemail2.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2000 22:30:08 -0000 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <94981536301@out.newmail.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@onelist.com; contact lojban-owner@onelist.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@onelist.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:31:02 -0000 From: "And Rosta" Subject: RE: [lojban] Re: Subjunctives Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "And Rosta" > From: "Adam Raizen" > > la xorxes cusku di'e > > > From: "Jorge Llambias" > > > > la adam cusku di'e > > > > >I disagree. It seems to me that the x1 of vanbi is the geneal way to > > >express places like the x3 of binxo. In other words, "loi bisli cu > > >binxo loi jaclitki le nu glare" doesn't necessarily mean that any ice > > >actually becomes liquid water, if it never gets hot enough. Likewise > > >if "vanbi" is the main bridi. Even when you use the tag "va'o" as in > > >the above sentence, the main bridi is only being claimed under the > > >condition of the tagged sumti, as if an "under conditions" place was > > >added to the main bridi. > > > > I'm not sure why you say you disagree. I agree with what > > you say, which means that va'o by itself, without da'i, > > already tags a hypothetical. > > Maybe I misunderstood you, but I had thought that you had just > said that you accepted that "va'o" without "da'i" claims the main > bridi with the tagged sumti as its environment, whereas I was > saying that the main bridi does not necessarily occur if what is > tagged by "va'o" doesn't occur. I don't understand either of you. The main bridi is true only if the va'o sumti obtains, but (at least without da'i -- I'm not sure what difference it would make) "broda va'o le nu brode" claims that both broda and brode obtain. Hence va'o would seem to be more appropriate to translate "I work under difficult conditions" than "I work if things are difficult". --And. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9 percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com