From sentto-44114-2245-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Sun Mar 12 20:17:10 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 10951 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2000 20:17:09 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 12 Mar 2000 20:17:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 12906 invoked by uid 40001); 12 Mar 2000 20:17:46 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 12903 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2000 20:17:44 -0000 Received: from hk.egroups.com (208.48.218.13) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 12 Mar 2000 20:17:44 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-2245-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.38] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2000 20:17:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 24398 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2000 20:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Mar 2000 20:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.111) by mta2.onelist.org with SMTP; 12 Mar 2000 20:17:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 54507 invoked by uid 0); 12 Mar 2000 20:17:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20000312201705.54506.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.41.247.51 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 12:17:05 PST X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.51] To: lojban@onelist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@onelist.com; contact lojban-owner@onelist.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@onelist.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 12:17:05 PST X-eGroups-From: "Jorge Llambias" From: "Jorge Llambias" Subject: Re: [lojban] Mass/Set Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Jorge Llambias" la pycyn cusku di'e >In short, I think that taking a bite of an apple >should count as a case of le nu citka lo plise or whatever, barring some >further aspect marker to avoid uncertainty. Yes, I agree. But this still doesn't mean that {lei nanmu cu citka lo plise} requires that {su'o nanmu cu citka lo plise}. If the apple is cut into pieces and distributed to the men, then even during the process, we can't really say that each of the men is eating an apple, can we? >I am worried a bit by the continuing question about the members of a mass. >I >understand what is meant by the question -- that this is a thing that >contributes to the overall output of the mass -- but not the wording. Is "component" a better word? I don't have any special reason to use "member", just that it is handy. >The >set that the mass is ontologically has members, but the mass per se does >not. What is the word for the members of the set from which the mass is derived? > How can the collaborative work of the individuals be that one of them is >a >member of that mass? Well, how do you explain the place structure of {mei}? It has a place for the mass and a place for a member of the corresponding set. The collaboration of the individuals is itself what makes each of them a member of the mass, so yes, in some sense they are collaborating to make each of them a member. >At best, the addition is disjunction, but the putative >member is not a member of any of these individuals , rather it is identical >with one. I don't think this is a case of disjunction. Every member has to contribute its participation to make each of them a part of something. >Unless >-- and this opens up some great possibilities for a logical language -- >cmimu >is like Lesniewski's jest, the combination (or undistinction) of all the >transitive "is"s: membership, identity, inclusion, part-whole. No, {cmima} is only "member/element/belong to group". {du} is identity, {pagbu} is part. I suppose {klesi} is inclusion. co'o mi'e xorxes. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/1/_/17627/_/952892226/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com