From pycyn@aol.com Sat Apr 08 11:16:40 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30673 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2000 18:16:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Apr 2000 18:16:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo23.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.67) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Apr 2000 18:16:40 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.af.238c8ab (4414) for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 14:16:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 14:16:31 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] lujvo glossing To: lojban@onelist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 33 X-eGroups-From: Pycyn@aol.com From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 2341 I'm glad someone (else) is undertaking this. The lirst list contains some surprises though, especially given the modifer-modified order in Lojban tanrus:: 1 ba'ucpi utter+bird bacru+cipni: birdcall/birdsong: x1 = bacru1 (utterer) = cipni1 (bird), x2 = bacru2 (sound) The tanru looks more like "song bird" than "bird song," so I'd've expected "x1 is a songbird of species x2 which cries x3" (under circumstance x4?)(maybe x2 and x3 reversed?) And, if this is "birdsong," wouldn't the song be x1? 2 ba'usna utter+sound bacru+sance: to sing, to vocally make sound: x1 = bacru1 (utterer) = sance2 (producer), x2 = bacru2 (speech) = sance1 (sound) How does this differ from bacru itself, or has that come to mean any mode of expression, and so we need to specify the sound form? But then, wouldn't it be a sound utterance rather than an utterance sound. Or is this the form for the sound uttered, so that x1 is a noise, not an agent (roughly se bacru for sounds)? 0+3 ba'urslepoi utter+cell+sequence 0+7 ba'urslepoimi'u utter+cell+sequence+same 16 ba'usle utter+cell I can't think of what a uttered cell might be literally, so I suspect a genuine metaphor here, possibly "phoneme" or "phone" or some other -eme or allo- at a higher level (tagm, say). 6 ba'urdu'i utter+equal bacru+dunli: to mimic/imitate a sound: x1 = bacru1 (utterer), x2 = bacru2 (sound) = dunli1 (left side), x3 = dunli2 (right side), x4 = dunli3 (comparator) Again, the underlying tanru looks like "equal in utterance" so that the utterers are x1 and x2 and what they equally utter is x3. I have no idea what this means, however. 4 ba'usni utter+sign bacru+sinxa: to speak in code/an unknown language: x1 = bacru1 (utterer), x2 = bacru2 (speech) = sinxa1 (sign), x3 = sinxa2 (meaning), x4 = sinxa3 (observer) Why not just a spoken (or transmitted, if bacru is general) sign, rather than the uttering of it: sinxa bacru? 3 babranti soap+soft You'd expect "soft soap," being a kind of soap to have that order. What can this mean< "soft as soap"? 2 babysenta soap+layer zbabu+senta: a soapy layer/layer of soap: x1 = senta1 (layer), x2 = senta2 (of) = zbabu1 (soap-made-thing), x3 = senta3 (object), x4 = zbabu2 (source), x5 = zbabu3 (composition) I suppose we'd normally say "soap film." 1[1] bacfendi beyond+divide ^ * new=batfendi bite+divide 0+1 backru beyond+curve I'd love to see some context on these; they look like hyperarithmatic operations and products. pc