From sentto-44114-2412-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Tue Apr 18 07:59:20 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 23902 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2000 07:59:19 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 18 Apr 2000 07:59:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 27292 invoked by uid 40001); 18 Apr 2000 09:00:44 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 27289 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2000 09:00:44 -0000 Received: from c9.egroups.com (207.138.41.187) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 18 Apr 2000 09:00:44 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-2412-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.36] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Apr 2000 09:00:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 2114 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2000 09:00:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 18 Apr 2000 09:00:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta2 with SMTP; 18 Apr 2000 09:00:41 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.e.2738af7 (4360) for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 05:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: lojban@onelist.com X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@egroups.com; contact lojban-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 05:00:38 EDT X-eGroups-From: Pycyn@aol.com From: pycyn@aol.com Subject: [lojban] Sex words Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lojban relationship words, Gender and relationship words -- not a record but an appeal for polishing an area off Some words suggested, in need of definitions, explication, general tidying. Brook Conner: glependo - "fuck-buddy" (but no derogatory connotations [makes "fuck" a bad choice in English -- gletu has none in Lojban, pc]) gletu pendo pampendo - "non-sexual lover/deep friend" prami pendo cinprami - "sexualove" (?lover?pc) cinse prami pamgle - loving intercourse pamygletu - [same] prami gletu pamcinse - loving sexuality prami cinse pedgle - friendly intercourse pe'ogle - [same] pe'ogletu - [same] pedgletu - [same] pendo gletu malgle fuck1 (? as opposed how to simple copulation?pc) malpe'o fuck (presumably, fuck3, since pendo has not implication of intercourse, pc) pc presumably all dyadic relations, none very clear. Note: pendo (and presumably most other words of similar sort -- which I leave deliberately vague ) is defined in terms of observable properties, behaving in a friendly fashion over a period of time (pleasant conversation, helpful actions, and so on-- a deliberately open-ended list). These action are taken to indicate affection and benevolence, but this is not required for the term. However, when proof of lack of the latter arises (typically by some other actions) we may withdraw the attribution and say things like "I thought he was a friend but he turned out not to be" or "but he was just pretending" or perhaps "but he changed." gletu appears to need some clarification, given the range of activities that these (and the following) words suggest as possibly under it (oral? anal? digital (yes, including big toes or the athletically inclined)? "clit bumping"? mechanical? self? -- I assume that these will make cases of German shepherds and sheep clear). Brook Conner pavycinglepre (monosexual) relcinglepre (bisexual). Lojbab woman-become-man for male to female transsexuals(or past-man-woman) reverse the genders for the other direction. monadic? or places for former and present names pc This leaves out a lot of possibilities: transgendered (i.e., living as other gender without body alteration), transvestite, and, of course, homosexual and heterosexual. And this does not even get into the mass of biologically defined variant sexes: xx males (hypersensitive to testosterone), xy females (lack testosterone receptors), xyy males and overt hermaphrodites of various degrees Brook Conner >Another example, in English, the phrase "my wife's girlfriend" is perhaps >startling, but also unclear in meaning - is this just a friend who is >female? Or does my wife sleep with this friend? Is this something that >is part of our family structure? Or is it something clandestine? Lojbab pendo does not indicate a sexual relationship no matter what genders are involved. If you wantto imply a sexual relationship you must explicitly add cinse or when appropriate gletu. So my spouse's female-friend is fine. More complicated might be teenage "going-with" relationships. My 13 year old flirts and is flirted with by half the boys in her school, has at any given time one "boyfriend", but this seems to change every few weeks, and hopefully is well short of gletu. I would probably use special-friend, or special-boy-friend, or even special-sexual-friend. Brook Conner Another example: my friend's child. There's no real way to express (that I can think of) in English what your relationship is with this child without a) sounding like a child molester or b) spending a paragraph or two explaining what is intended. Is this someone I know, but have no interaction with? Or someone who is a friend of mine as well? Or someone I think of as a child of my own? Lojbab If you are of the same generation as your friend, in Lojban you are a metaphorical uncle. So he is a friend-nephew or friend-se-uncle pc Loglan regularly used a word for "social" to distinguish these kinds of relationships from biological ones. The various kinds of blended families create another place where work is needed (or in need of recording anyhow): steps, halfs, double halfs, adoptions, surrogate, .... This thread also introduced some discussion of Lojban swearing or, rather, insulting but reached no very clear conclusion about how to do it well or accurately -- who was being held in contempt by ionai, for example, or how that contempt should be rendered -- except perhaps contextually. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Avoid the lines and visit avis.com for quick and easy online reservations. Enjoy a compact car nationwide for only $29 a day! 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