From sentto-44114-2341-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Sat Apr 08 17:16:05 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 5991 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2000 17:15:59 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 8 Apr 2000 17:15:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 10178 invoked by uid 40001); 8 Apr 2000 18:16:43 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 10175 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2000 18:16:43 -0000 Received: from mk.egroups.com (208.50.144.76) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 8 Apr 2000 18:16:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-2341-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.35] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2000 18:16:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 30673 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2000 18:16:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Apr 2000 18:16:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo23.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.67) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Apr 2000 18:16:40 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.af.238c8ab (4414) for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 14:16:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: To: lojban@onelist.com X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@egroups.com; contact lojban-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 14:16:31 EDT X-eGroups-From: Pycyn@aol.com From: pycyn@aol.com Subject: Re: [lojban] lujvo glossing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm glad someone (else) is undertaking this. The lirst list contains some surprises though, especially given the modifer-modified order in Lojban tanrus:: 1 ba'ucpi utter+bird bacru+cipni: birdcall/birdsong: x1 = bacru1 (utterer) = cipni1 (bird), x2 = bacru2 (sound) The tanru looks more like "song bird" than "bird song," so I'd've expected "x1 is a songbird of species x2 which cries x3" (under circumstance x4?)(maybe x2 and x3 reversed?) And, if this is "birdsong," wouldn't the song be x1? 2 ba'usna utter+sound bacru+sance: to sing, to vocally make sound: x1 = bacru1 (utterer) = sance2 (producer), x2 = bacru2 (speech) = sance1 (sound) How does this differ from bacru itself, or has that come to mean any mode of expression, and so we need to specify the sound form? But then, wouldn't it be a sound utterance rather than an utterance sound. Or is this the form for the sound uttered, so that x1 is a noise, not an agent (roughly se bacru for sounds)? 0+3 ba'urslepoi utter+cell+sequence 0+7 ba'urslepoimi'u utter+cell+sequence+same 16 ba'usle utter+cell I can't think of what a uttered cell might be literally, so I suspect a genuine metaphor here, possibly "phoneme" or "phone" or some other -eme or allo- at a higher level (tagm, say). 6 ba'urdu'i utter+equal bacru+dunli: to mimic/imitate a sound: x1 = bacru1 (utterer), x2 = bacru2 (sound) = dunli1 (left side), x3 = dunli2 (right side), x4 = dunli3 (comparator) Again, the underlying tanru looks like "equal in utterance" so that the utterers are x1 and x2 and what they equally utter is x3. I have no idea what this means, however. 4 ba'usni utter+sign bacru+sinxa: to speak in code/an unknown language: x1 = bacru1 (utterer), x2 = bacru2 (speech) = sinxa1 (sign), x3 = sinxa2 (meaning), x4 = sinxa3 (observer) Why not just a spoken (or transmitted, if bacru is general) sign, rather than the uttering of it: sinxa bacru? 3 babranti soap+soft You'd expect "soft soap," being a kind of soap to have that order. What can this mean< "soft as soap"? 2 babysenta soap+layer zbabu+senta: a soapy layer/layer of soap: x1 = senta1 (layer), x2 = senta2 (of) = zbabu1 (soap-made-thing), x3 = senta3 (object), x4 = zbabu2 (source), x5 = zbabu3 (composition) I suppose we'd normally say "soap film." 1[1] bacfendi beyond+divide ^ * new=batfendi bite+divide 0+1 backru beyond+curve I'd love to see some context on these; they look like hyperarithmatic operations and products. pc ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/2121/2/_/17627/_/955217801/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com