Message-ID: <033001bfa943$aaf2b900$22191bc1@rus.ger.com>
Reply-To: "Daniel Gudlat" <d.gudlat@rpluss.com>
To: <lojban@onelist.com>
References: <e.2738af7.262d7e36@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Sex words 
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:37:48 +0200
Organization: R+S Reengineering und Softwaredesign GmbH
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From: "Daniel Gudlat" <d.gudlat@rpluss.com>
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coi doi

la pycyn. cusku di'e

> Lojban relationship words, Gender and relationship words  -- not a
record but
> an appeal for polishing an area off

Disclaimer: I'm far from an expert in lojban, but I'll take a stab at
it.

> Some words suggested, in need of definitions, explication, general
tidying.
> Brook Conner:
> glependo  - "fuck-buddy" (but no derogatory connotations [makes "fuck"
a bad
> choice in English -- gletu has none in Lojban, pc])
>             gletu pendo

In English, like in most western languages, words describing things
sexual in nature either have derogatory connotations or are
clinical/medical in nature. So "fuck-buddy" for a "sexual-intercourse
type-of friend" is as good as anything you may possibly come up with.

> pampendo - "non-sexual lover/deep friend"
>             prami pendo

A "loving/devoted kind-of friend", a deep friend. In lojban, I would
imagine this doesn't suggest sexuality, but it doesn't specifically deny
it either, so strike the "non-sexual".

> cinprami - "sexualove"  (?lover?pc)
>             cinse prami

I agree with pc, this would be a "sexual lover" (gismu list: x1 loves
x2, not **x1 is a love...)

> pamgle - loving intercourse
>           pamygletu - [same]
>           prami gletu

And by the same rules, this would be a "loving intercourse-haver". I
image you'd need an event abstractor to get to the suggested meanings,
but then, I haven't yet started working through the lujvo making
rules...

> pamcinse - loving sexuality
>             prami cinse

I agree on this one.

> pedgle   - friendly intercourse
>             pe'ogle   - [same]
>             pe'ogletu - [same]
>             pedgletu - [same]
>             pendo gletu

As a verb, yes. Again, strictly speaking this is a "friendly
intercourser", or am I missing something with these tanru/lujvo? "mi
pedgle do" would be "I friendly-fuck you", right?

> malgle    fuck1 (? as opposed how to simple copulation?pc)

"derogatory intercourse", yup, this is as close to English "fuck" as it
gets in lojban. As opposed to simple copulation in that it is
derogatory, right?

> malpe'o  fuck (presumably, fuck3, since pendo has not implication of
> intercourse, pc)

I tentatively agree: "derogatory friend" would presumably come close to
the idea of "They are fucking their paying customers" when this is
uttered anywhere but inside a whore house. ;-)

> gletu appears to need some clarification, given the range of
activities that
> these (and the following) words suggest as possibly under it (oral?
anal?
> digital (yes, including big toes or the athletically inclined)? "clit
> bumping"? mechanical?  self?  -- I assume that these will make cases
of
> German shepherds and sheep clear).

I'm German, but I know neither the shepherds nor the sheep nor their
cases. Care to enlighten me?

But anyway, according to the gismu list, gletu might be taken to mean
only the sexual act involving the sexual organs of both sexes, as
suggested by the translations "copulate, have coitus, mate, have sexual
intercourse", and thus doesn't account for the wide range of sexual
activities humans do for recreative purposes. (On the other hand, this
narrow view would possibly leave even homosexual activity out of the
picture.) Since any departure from said narrow view is really but a
question of degrees, the only viable alternative seems to me to be the
adoption of a wider definition that does in fact account for all of
mankinds wide field of sexual activity. (Or do we really want to go down
the road paved by Billyboy Clintons unfortunate lawsuit?! ;-)

Once this view has been taken, the rest would become a question of
building the proper tanru/lujvo:
  "moklu gletu" mouth-kind-of sexing, oral sex
  "ganxo gletu" anus-kind-of sexing, anal sex
  "degji gletu" finger/toe-kind-of sexing, digital sex
would probably do the trick, or have I missed any pitfalls? If you
actually mean vaginal-penile sex as opposed to any other way of
"implementing" gletu, you then have to be accordingly specific...

<snip the rest, which would involve a lot of lujvo making which I'm not
good enough at, yet>

co'o
--
Daniel "Gudy" Gudlat
d.gudlat@rpluss.com

No one pays me enough to speak for them, so I only speak for myself.