From jimc@MATH.UCLA.EDU Wed May 31 08:45:49 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14061 invoked from network); 31 May 2000 15:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 31 May 2000 15:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bach.math.ucla.edu) (128.97.4.246) by mta2 with SMTP; 31 May 2000 15:45:48 -0000 Received: from simba.math.ucla.edu (root@simba.math.ucla.edu [128.97.4.125]) by bach.math.ucla.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17851 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 08:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jimc@localhost) by simba.math.ucla.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00338 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 08:45:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: simba.math.ucla.edu: jimc owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:45:55 -0700 (PDT) To: The Lojban List Subject: Re: [lojban] coi rodo - mi'e .aulun. In-Reply-To: <392FD495.1F3C@math.bas.bg> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: "James F. Carter" X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 2890 I agree that in translating a Chinese name "xxx Tze", "xxx sen" is a rather non-authentic lojbanization. My wife, who is a native speaker with a reasonably decent Mandarin accent, pronounces that category of name as "xxx dz". For example: en. "Laotze" <- cn. "Lao2 dz5" -> lb. "laodz". The 5 represents a tone kind of like 4th (high even) but very much not emphasized. James F. Carter Voice 310 825 2897 FAX 310 206 6673 UCLA-Mathnet; 6115 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90095-1555 Internet: jimc@math.ucla.edu (finger for PGP key) UUCP:...!{ucsd,ames,ncar,gatech,purdue,rutgers,decvax,uunet}!math.ucla.edu!jimc On Sat, 27 May 2000, Ivan A Derzhanski wrote: > Jorge Llambias wrote: > > >Chuangtze and Huitze had > > >strolled on to the bridge over the Hao, > [...] > > i ca le nu la tcuantsen e la xuitsen > > In my view {n} is a very poor choice of a consonant wherewith > to end a cmene made from a Chinese name, because it's one of > the very few that the hearer won't be able to recognise as such. > All things considered, I'd go for {tcuan,ts} and {xuei,ts}. > (Or maybe not. People might be tempted to insert an auxiliary > vowel between the two components of the affricate, which would > be awful.) > ...