From pycyn@aol.com Mon May 22 19:17:17 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4939 invoked from network); 23 May 2000 02:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 May 2000 02:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r16.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.70) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 May 2000 02:17:16 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-r16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v27.9.) id a.94.4b5defb (1840) for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 22:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <94.4b5defb.265b440f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:16:47 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] le ga'ifanta To: lojban@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 2819 In a message dated 00-05-22 13:18:38 EDT, you write: << le ga'ifanta ba'o cfari .i pu'o fanmo va'o le mu'e mumoi nanca mo'u le za'i loi cukta mo'u paprici'a >> Barring another revolution I missed, some comments (and notice that I am not offering to take on this translation task): First is clean: the freeze has started;- the start is over and its effects (the ongoing freeze) continue. But: why not a subject for the second: it is obvious (I suppose, though so often it has been scilicentious ), but I think it is a bad habit, even if elegant. or . Or just conjoin the predicates with the appropriate form of . Anyhow, is the mirror image of , causes all together but not yet actually begun, "is about to." This does not apply to the end of the freeze; almost none of the causes are in place -- an adequate-sized group of competent lb speakers, for instance. has the advantage over that it does not commit you to the event actually happening, but that force of is mitigated by the general uncertainty of the future and could here be further diluted by some weasly epistemolgical flag, "they say," or so. Of course, here the point is to lay down the ruling, not make a prediction, so a stronger but less specific form might be appropriate: "if it ever ends, it will be after at least five years after..." I am not sure what could mean with in a rational way: being a duration is almost by definition a state, or, at best, an activity, not an achievement. But, since it is hard to make rational sense of it yet it is legal, we can make an idiom and the one you suggest "the completion (full realization) of the fifth year" [it should be ] is the best candidate for practical purposes. I haven't put a parser to it, but I don't follow the next bit "the fifth year at the natural end of the state of the books at the end of being page-written" Published? But that is an achievement in one way, so the fifth year _after_ it, or a state, so the fifth year of it (i.e. being in print). I think you want the with the , not the . So move it in front of the selbri -- and thus take care of the question about the . "under the condition that the state of the books being in print has reached the end of its fifth year (at least)." I am not sure this quite says that even yet, maybe (because I am unsure especially about how the second fits into the place structure) taking the last to be "are in print." You make this sound like a sufficient condition to end the freeze, but it is only necessary, so -- despite the it is too strong . " For all x, if x is the date of the end of the freeze, then x is at least five years after the publication (achievement sense) of the books."