From sentto-44114-3258-962064401-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Tue Jun 27 00:05:41 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 1697 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2000 00:05:41 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 27 Jun 2000 00:05:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 22165 invoked by uid 40001); 27 Jun 2000 00:06:48 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 22162 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2000 00:06:48 -0000 Received: from hi.egroups.com (208.50.144.89) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 27 Jun 2000 00:06:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-3258-962064401-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.38] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 27 Jun 2000 00:06:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 3753 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2000 00:06:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 27 Jun 2000 00:06:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.29) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Jun 2000 00:06:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 44881 invoked by uid 0); 27 Jun 2000 00:06:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20000627000640.44880.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.42.153.226 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:06:40 PDT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.153.226] To: lojban@egroups.com From: "Jorge Llambias" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@egroups.com; contact lojban-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:06:40 PDT Subject: Re: [lojban] As Kunsunlundz said... [was RE: RECORD:containers] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit la pycyn cusku di'e >This seems a little >odd, since when I say {ta botpi} I am probably NOT thinking of them worlds >over there and then but of the bottle I have in my hand here and now, that >is >the untensed form is contextually focused to the present. I agree with this. The "potential botpi", or "botpi containing air" are clearly cop-outs to kid ourselves that we are using the language properly, because that is not what we have in mind when we use {botpi} for English "bottle". English "bottle" corresponds much more closely to the single argument function Bottle(x) than to the two valued BottleContaining(x,y), which is what {botpi} is. Presumably a fluent Lojban speaker would not be influenced by the English keyword and would not tend to associate an empty bottle with the predicate {botpi} unless for some reason considering potential contents makes sense in that context. But we're not there yet. co'o mi'e xorxes ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! 1. Fill in the brief application 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR http://click.egroups.com/1/5197/4/_/17627/_/962064401/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com