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Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:05:25 EDT
Subject: [lojban] Re: Robin on cmene
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la robin. cusku 
<<The discussion of standardisation also has a bearing on the concept of a
cmene itself, I think.  The whole point of a cmene, as I see it, is that
it is an arbitrary label, and thus can be anything you like, so long as
it conforms to the rules of Lojban morphology (zo'o not that mine always
do).  To talk of a standard form for cmene seems contradictory.  OK, I
know that the first of my Lojban lessons has instructions on how to
Lojbanise proper names, but this is simply an aid to (a) understanding
Lojban phonology and (b) assist people who want to make cmene which bear
some relation to the soundof the name they derive from, which most of
the time is what we want.  However, this does not detract from the
essentially arbitrary nature of cmene. If Bob wants to refer to himself
as "lojbab." because his dialect pronounces "Bob" something like UK
English "barb", that's his privelege, but he could equally well cmenify
"Bob" as "glurp." or something. "la bab." does _not_ mean "a member of
the set of entities whose native-language names are pronounced similarly
to Lojban 'bab'.">>
Well, for cmene as an abstract concept, maybe.  But not for
_my_name_.  That is not an arbitrary label (no matter what its
history is) but a part of my identity -- to myself and to the group in
which it is used.  And, if I use several names (I regularly use four,
in fact, and a fifth for special occasions), each of them carries with
it its own aspects of my personality and interests and my special
relationships with the group in which I use it.  To meddle with it is
to denigrate or ignore that part of me and so me taken as a whole.  
Now, one coming into Lojban certainly can -- and does -- make a
choice about how to name oneself in that new context.  If one
elects to bring over as much as possible of one's public name or
one's name from another context, then it is important that that come
out essentially correctly.  The pain of some misses have been
apparent in other postings, and the urgency of getting it right -- not,
I think, only to show a mastery of lb phonology (see the worry
about a choice among several equally lb solutions).  
The above may sound a bit cuckoo, but I think it is essentially the way most 
people
"really" feel about their names, so I expect to have problems about cmene for 
ever
hereafter.

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