From sklyanin@pdmi.ras.ru Thu Jun 15 08:17:00 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21251 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2000 15:15:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Jun 2000 15:15:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsta.leeds.ac.uk) (129.11.36.1) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Jun 2000 15:15:51 -0000 Received: from navier.leeds.ac.uk (navier [129.11.36.238]) by amsta.leeds.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13654; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:15:29 +0100 (BST) Received: (from sklyanin@localhost) by navier.leeds.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21013; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:15:30 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <200006151515.QAA21013@navier.leeds.ac.uk> Subject: containers To: lojban@egroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:15:30 +0100 (BST) Cc: sklyanin@amsta.leeds.ac.uk (Evgueni Sklyanin) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-From: E Sklyanin From: E Sklyanin X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 3083 coi rodo There is a group of gismu describing various containers. The definition of such gismu usually has a place (x2, sometimes x3) for the contents. In the list of English definitions the word "contents" is used with three prepositions: for/of/with: "for contents": botpi (bottle), dacru (drower), lante (can), patxu (pot), tansi (pan), tanxe (box). "of contents": baktu (bucket), palne (tray) "with contents": dakli (sack), lanku (basket) unique wording: kabri (cup) "containing contents" palta (plate) - no place for contents I wonder if this difference in wording (for/of/with/containig) is deliberate and serves to convey different meanings. Are we speaking in case of bottle (botpi) only of the bottle itself, and of only potential contents? How do we say then "a bottle of wine"? Respectively, when we use "bucket" (baktu) are we speaking about an amount of water contained in a bucket? How can we then refer to an empty bucket? I would prefer to have a uniform place structure for all kinds of containers. It is rather difficult to memorize the distibution of "for/of/with". co'o mi'e .evgenis.