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Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 13:47:46 -0000
Subject: [lojban] Why constructed languages?
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coi rodo

Recently, we have started a discussion on the use of 'new'
(artificial) languages in our Chinese forum. I'd like to also share
it with you:

(Ming had mentioned ...)

>From time to time, some well-meaning kind soul proposes an artificial
language with the idea that it will improve exchanges among people=20
from different countries.=20
One such recent language is called glosa, ... The only redeeming
feature of this is their selection of Zhuangzi's fish story as an
illustrative=20
example. This one is based on Greek and Latin roots. Personally, I
don't think it can win friends any more than a new artificial
language based=20
on Chinese-Japanese-Korean roots.

(Siu-Leung's reply ...)

I agree with Ming. Any new language invented now is too late. We can
only modify the current languages to a point that it is easier to=20
understand by all.=20
I would propose to revolutionize English by=20

1. leaving out the tense modifiers and replace that with an
infinitive plus a time adverb, as in Chinese grammar. I go, he=20
    go, we go. I go yesterday. He go tomorrow.=20

2. standardizing spelling and sound of words so no more confusion
with -ough (as in thought, though, through, dough,=20
    tough, ...) etc.=20

 But looks like this will never happen. :(=20
=20=20

(this is my post ...)

... I hope this will never happen. Don't like to go too far into this
topic - just want to say that English *once was* a language not too
bad.=20
Modern American just is a matter of (political) *fact* in the moment
(i.e. the time we - and our children/grandchildren) have to live in.
I'd=20
rather prefer some Chinese language (not Mandarin, because of its
poor phonology) to be the future world language. English from its
huge=20
heterogen vocabulary is too complicated to learn - that being the
reason it's already on its way to getting poorer and poorer (because
used by=20
guys like me all around the world who don't really live in this
language, hence not able to fathom its depths. It's like pouring
water in a jug=20
with wine so everybody can drink of it). Unlike the French, English
speaking countries do not at all try to protect their language -=20
because=20
wanting to sell it out to everybody.=20
This already (i.e. not doing harm/damage to any natural language)
could be a heavy reason for creating a language from the scratch. I=20
wouldn't accept e.g. a pidgin-German, as you most probably won't like
zhongwen being pidginized - so, why doing this to the (former)
language=20
of a Shakespeare, a Keats ??? Why make one's own mothertongue a
harlot offered to the world!=20

Don't you (Siu-Leung!) still realize that the English language has
its very own idiomatic - very, very different to most of other
languages=20
(e.g. in Europe: linguistically very different languages like German,
Italian, Hungarian etc. idiomatically are much closer to each other
than to=20
English/American!). Do you like this English 'state of mind' (the
"American way of life" how it is called by themselves!) to further
being=20
spread all over the peoples on the globe! To go on with this
voluntary/unvoluntary kind of brain-wash - you aren't even aware of?=20
So 'good souls' (as Ming names them) are inventing languages from the
scratch called 'Esperanto' (=3Dhope), 'Glosa'  (tongue=3Dlanguage), 'WL'=20
(World Language!), 'Lojban' (Logic Language) etc., etc.. More or less
all of them want to get rid of that entire national idiomatic stuff
in order=20
to clear out the speakers brains and give them a common platform to
share and exchange their ideas.=20

Although reading the constructed language 'Interlingua' for the very
first time, I could easily get  e.g. the contents of a high-level
text on=20
Raeto-Roman linguistic problems. 'Glosa', a very easy and
well-structured new language, is based on ancient Greek and Latin
(and some=20
English and German). Because of mainly being based on Greek, it was
quite a bit harder for me to understand from the very beginning.
(BTW,=20
Ming, there also is a very good translation of Alfred de Vigny's "La
mort du loup" after a German translation of Hermann Hesse on the
Glosa=20
site mentionend earlier by me!)=20

Understanding a new language easily and without much effort though,
is pretty indivual and - regarding the world's population - not the
point:=20
So the 'Lojban' language based on Chinese, English, Hindi, Spanish,
Russian and Arabic (in this order) lacks every non-Lojban idiomatic
and has=20
invented all the words totally from scratch (you *do* have to learn
them anew, maybe(!) getting hold on some slight national language's=20
criteria (as for myself: catra/shaatra - to kill/slaughter, from
Chinese =B1=FE, Spanish 'matar' - and maybe 'slAughTeR', or
'tricu'/treeshu)=20
from 'tree' and =BE=F0, or 'cukti'/shookti from =AE=D1, 'bOOK' and
Arabic 'KITab' etc.).=20

On my site's links page you'll find the address of an interesting
site referring to 'all' existing constructed languages (CONLANG).=20
Please also have a look on WL, a very impressing and thorough
approach to create a world language based on characters, hand signs
and=20
speech (IMHO it's pretty complicated mainly with regard to the
characters recognizability). It's done by a Japanese lady living in
CA.  Alfred=20
=B6=F8=C0s

I'd be interested in hearing your opinions. E.g., was Lojban/Loglan
inventor's idea similar to Zamenhof's? (Z.'s 'Esperanto' was the
*Hope*=20
getting people(s) united in freedom, peace and 'understanding'. His
basic idea had been to create a language for the Jewish people spread
all=20
over the world - Hebrew regarded as too difficult, Yiddish - being a
medieval German dialect - not appropriate enough. Yet, there are
indeed=20
constructive principles adopted from Hebrew as well.) Or, was it just
thought a tool to communicate with computers, created within the=20
frame of virtual intelligence studies?!

co'o mi'e .aulun.


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