From sentto-44114-3331-962407048-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Sat Jul 01 05:34:08 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 7132 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 05:34:07 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 1 Jul 2000 05:34:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 11885 invoked by uid 40001); 1 Jul 2000 05:35:33 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 11878 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 05:35:33 -0000 Received: from jj.egroups.com (208.50.144.82) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 1 Jul 2000 05:35:33 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-3331-962407048-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.37] by jj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2000 23:17:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 25107 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2000 23:17:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 Jun 2000 23:17:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.96) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Jun 2000 23:17:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 95529 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jun 2000 23:17:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20000630231727.95528.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.42.153.116 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:17:27 PDT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.153.116] To: lojban@egroups.com From: "Jorge Llambias" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@egroups.com; contact lojban-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:17:27 PDT Subject: Re: [lojban] Opposite of za'o Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit la pier cusku di'e >"still" isn't "za'o", it's "pujeca". These have been proposed before: still: pujeca no longer: pujecanai already: punaijeca not yet: punaijecanai But to me they miss the most fundamental component of these words, the "beyond expectation" part. These should not be mere time tenses, and besides they can also be used with past or future (still was, already will be, no longer will be, wasn't yet, etc) which become very inconvenient (pupunaijepucanai?). >"za'o" means that an action continues >after it's completed, not that it is still going on. "still" certainly has a component of "beyond expectation", and the expectation is completion for actions that could be completed. Maybe {za'o} won't do for every single case of "still", but mostly it sure does. This beyond expectation component of "still" is used in English also for non-temporal situations, like "those who take the greatest care still make mistakes" or "a still more difficult problem". >I can be in High Point, >with my car still running, and be still on my way to Pineville even though >mi >na za'o klama py. Why would you say that you were still on your way, if there was no expectation that you should no longer be on your way? co'o mi'e xorxes ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ P.S. - You have to check this link out, it's pretty funny. http://click.egroups.com/1/6012/4/_/17627/_/962407048/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com