From sentto-44114-3041-960910311-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Tue Jun 13 15:31:41 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 18244 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2000 15:31:40 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 13 Jun 2000 15:31:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 26287 invoked by uid 40001); 13 Jun 2000 15:34:21 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 26284 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2000 15:34:20 -0000 Received: from hj.egroups.com (208.50.144.90) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 13 Jun 2000 15:34:20 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-3041-960910311-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.35] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2000 15:34:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 16831 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2000 15:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Jun 2000 15:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO argo.bas.bg) (195.96.224.7) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Jun 2000 15:30:41 -0000 Received: from banmatpc.math.bas.bg (root@banmatpc.math.bas.bg [195.96.243.2]) by argo.bas.bg (8.11.0.Beta1/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) with ESMTP id e5DFUPk01704 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:30:25 +0300 Received: from iad.math.bas.bg (iad.math.bas.bg [195.96.243.88]) by banmatpc.math.bas.bg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA28170 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:30:23 +0300 Message-ID: <394653C3.70DC@math.bas.bg> Organization: Institute for Mathematics and Computer Science X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) To: The Lojban List References: <4.2.2.20000613034311.00b3d220@127.0.0.1> From: Ivan A Derzhanski MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@egroups.com; contact lojban-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:31:15 +0300 Reply-To: iad@math.bas.bg Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: lujvo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) wrote: > There is a direct Lojban equivalent to Italian "Madonna = my lady" > in terms of etymology of the tanru - I would make it "mibni'u", What?! {mibni'u} < {mi ninmu} means `my woman', not `my lady'. > or if you want the connotations of mistress of higher class, > you could insert "nol" as a modifier for nobility (mibnolni'u), > ces for holy (mibycesni'u), or selse'u for one who is served. Getting progressively closer, but still not there. I quote what I think are the relevant meanings from Merriam-Webster: `a woman having proprietary rights or authority especially as a feudal superior'; `a woman of superior social position'. > But in Lojban, none of these would have the Italian MEANING of "Madonna" > because Lojban tanru have all manner of interpretations, and lujvo > select a single ad hoc one of these, but are not necessarily a part > of the lexicon unless picked up by the speaking community (and/or > enshrined in the dictionary). Indeed. {cevni mamta} `god mother' invites at least two obvious interpretations: `mother who is a goddess' (Thetis) and `mother of a god' (Alcmene). > We ARE trying for a culturally neutral; language, so if I wanted > a word for the mother of Christ, I would NOT use "cevni", I would > use "xriso" as the basis for the lujvo. I would use both: {xriso cevni mamta}. `Christian mother' is just not enough. But why use a lujvo/tanru anyway? Why not a cmene? It is the name of one particular character, isn't it? --Ivan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WRITERS WANTED! Themestream allows ALL writers to publish their articles on the Web, reach thousands of interested readers, and get paid in cash for their work. Click below: http://click.egroups.com/1/3840/3/_/17627/_/960910282/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com