From sentto-44114-3322-962348666-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Sat Jul 01 05:23:58 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 7100 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 05:23:57 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 1 Jul 2000 05:23:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 10427 invoked by uid 40001); 1 Jul 2000 05:25:23 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 10424 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 05:25:23 -0000 Received: from hl.egroups.com (208.50.99.197) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 1 Jul 2000 05:25:23 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-3322-962348666-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.37] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2000 07:04:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 4627 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2000 07:04:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 Jun 2000 07:04:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO NewMail.Net) (192.117.188.50) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Jun 2000 07:04:25 -0000 Received: from NewMail.Net ([192.117.188.41]) by newmail.net ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:00:58 +02:00 Sender: araizen@NewMail.Net To: lojban@egroups.com Message-id: <395c61ca.15a.0@NewMail.Net> From: "Adam Raizen" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@egroups.com; contact lojban-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:00:58 Gmt +2:00 Reply-To: araizen@NewMail.Net Subject: Re: [lojban] Opposite of za'o Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit la xorxes cusku di'e >In principle, we can derive all four from any one of them >plus negation, so {za'o} should be enough: > >za'o = still >za'o na = still not = not yet >na za'o = "not still" = no longer >na za'o na = no longer not = already I think that "za'o" is a certain take on "still" & companions, and is often a good translation for it, but sometimes the event has not passed any kind of a potential end (whether natural or not) but nevertheless might be marked with "still" in English. In these cases you can use "co'unai" or "mo'unai" according to the context. Thus, in some circumstances, "co'u" and "mo'u" would be good translations for "no longer". I think that "pu'o" is generally a good translation for "not yet". Both say that the event has not yet started, and neither imply that the event will actually happen. Thus, "already" could sometimes be "na pu'o/pu'onai", "co'u na", or "mo'u na", but intuitively "already" doesn't contain any negation, as you pointed out, and I can't think of any one word for it. >I don't know whether {za'onai} is {na za'o}, as you propose, >or {za'o na}, or something else. I think that ZA'Onai is na ZA'O since to me this is most intuitive, and since 'nai' is supposed to be negating the ZA'O, and na ZA'O is a negated ZA'O, whereas ZA'O na is still a type of affirmative ZA'O. co'o mi'e adam _________________________________________ Protect your Computer from Viruses Sent via E-mail at http://www.mailcleaner.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ High long distance bills are HISTORY! Join beMANY! http://click.egroups.com/1/4164/4/_/17627/_/962348666/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com