From sentto-44114-3435-962893116-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Thu Jul 06 14:17:00 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 14166 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2000 14:16:58 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 6 Jul 2000 14:16:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 28401 invoked by uid 40001); 6 Jul 2000 14:18:47 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 28398 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2000 14:18:47 -0000 Received: from ml.egroups.com (208.50.144.77) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 6 Jul 2000 14:18:47 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-3435-962893116-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.35] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2000 15:18:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 7089 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2000 14:18:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Jul 2000 14:18:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO argo.bas.bg) (195.96.224.7) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jul 2000 14:18:33 -0000 Received: from banmatpc.math.bas.bg (root@banmatpc.math.bas.bg [195.96.243.2]) by argo.bas.bg (8.11.0.Beta1/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) with ESMTP id e66EIQS01260 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:18:30 +0300 Received: from iad.math.bas.bg (iad.math.bas.bg [195.96.243.88]) by banmatpc.math.bas.bg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA09762 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:18:25 +0300 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <39647ECA.EFD08C88@math.bas.bg> X-Mozilla-Draft-Info: internal/draft; vcard=0; receipt=0; uuencode=0; html=0; linewidth=0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: lojban@egroups.com References: <20000706015708.3248.qmail@hotmail.com> From: Ivan A Derzhanski MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@egroups.com; contact lojban-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 15:42:50 +0300 Subject: Re: [lojban] Opposite of za'o Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jorge Llambias wrote: > la ivAn cusku di'e > >I'm not quite sure I know what you mean by `mirror'. There is > >a reason for the current asymmetry of even contours, and it is > >the fact that causality works forward in time. >=20 > I don't dispute that of course. What word should I use, "dual"? > It is certainly a duality relationship [...]. In all of these > we have X =3D 'not Y not' for some suitable use of 'not'. Yes, `dual' is indeed the usual term for this. > >{co'a}: event brings forth process > >{mo'u}: process brings forth event > >{co'u}: event discontinues process > > > >There doesn't seem to be a vacancy for a fourth point. [...] > If we can make a distinction between "event discontinues process" > and a "process brings forth event", I don't see why we can't > distinguish "event brings forth process" from "process leaves > event behind", distinguishing a mere circumstantial start from > an actual birth or origination. But that would involve no causality, merely the coincidence of two times (of the event and of the start of the process), because a process can't cause something except by having gone on for a while, and that is already covered by {mo'u}. Which may imply that {co'a} is {za'o}'s mirror, in the sense of being the symmetrically allocated item in the sequence {pu'o -- co'a -- ca'o -- mu'o -- za'o -- co'u -- ba'o}. > > > >I have washed the car, but I have not yet walked the dog. [...] > Maybe the way to get that would be: >=20 > i mi ba'o lumci le karce i mi pu'o ku'i dzugau le gerku Yes, that looks very good to me. --Ivan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm, Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else? Click now and find =91em all here! http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/4/_/17627/_/962893114/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com