From sentto-44114-3600-963447033-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Thu Jul 13 00:08:27 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 25316 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2000 00:08:26 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 13 Jul 2000 00:08:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 26971 invoked by uid 40001); 13 Jul 2000 00:10:43 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 26968 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2000 00:10:41 -0000 Received: from ml.egroups.com (208.50.144.77) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 13 Jul 2000 00:10:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-3600-963447033-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.37] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Jul 2000 01:10:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 19986 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2000 00:10:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Jul 2000 00:10:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.240.193) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Jul 2000 00:10:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 8454 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jul 2000 00:10:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20000713001013.8453.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.42.154.196 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:10:13 PDT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.154.196] To: lojban@egroups.com From: "Jorge Llambias" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@egroups.com; contact lojban-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:10:13 PDT Subject: Re: `even' (Re: [lojban] Re: Tashunkekokipapi) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit la aulun cusku di'e >Although I like /ji'acai/, I still feel that surprise somehow is part >of "even". Yes, there is an element of surprise in the sense that any least likely candidate is the most surprising one. But in my opinion this is not {ue}-surprise, but something much more subtle. {ue} is all about the speaker, the speaker's reaction to what is being expressed. "Even" is about the marked sumti (or selbri) with respect to the other relevant candidates. With {ue} the speaker is showing how they are affected by what is being said. With "even" the speaker is not showing any emotional reaction, only a description of a situation. It is of course possible to combine both, but not necessary nor applicable in all cases. >I once thought of /.ueji'a/ or even /.ueji'acai/ I think {ji'a} definitely has to be the basis of "even". {ue} is clearly compatible with it, but it doesn't really add the notion of reaching to the limit. It has to do with the speaker's reaction and not with what the speaker is describing as such. co'o mi'e xorxes ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Visit Law.com for exclusive national and regional content, online CLE Seminars, Practice Centers, Career Listings and Expert Witness Directory. http://click.egroups.com/1/6875/4/_/17627/_/963447033/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com