From sentto-44114-3394-962666458-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Mon Jul 03 23:19:24 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 10530 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2000 23:19:23 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 3 Jul 2000 23:19:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 8446 invoked by uid 40001); 3 Jul 2000 23:21:00 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 8443 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2000 23:21:00 -0000 Received: from cj.egroups.com (208.50.144.68) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 3 Jul 2000 23:21:00 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-3394-962666458-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.37] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Jul 2000 23:20:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 7941 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2000 23:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Jul 2000 23:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.238) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2000 23:20:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 99788 invoked by uid 0); 3 Jul 2000 23:20:55 -0000 Message-ID: <20000703232055.99787.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.42.154.121 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 16:20:55 PDT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.154.121] To: lojban@egroups.com From: "Jorge Llambias" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@egroups.com; contact lojban-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 16:20:55 PDT Subject: Re: [lojban] RE: Opposite of za'o Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit la pycyn cusku di'e >But an achievement is the paradigm change of state - from not to so: >winning >(or coming in last for that matter), being born, getting elected, etc. Sorry, I didn't mean change of state. I meant change of action status, from happening to not happening, or from not happening to happening. Not a change of one of the arguments but of the relationship between the arguments. I know some verbs are classified as achievements because they refer to the change of state of something, but is that really what {co'i} is? Does it refer to what happens to the x1 argument, or is it simply that the whole event is taken as a point event, whatever type of event it is? That is what I recall as the official explication, although I never felt very comfortable with {co'i}. I don't think I have ever used it. >But, if these premature and postsenile cases are to be allowed at all, we >can >-- and must -- be able to talk about the natural ending and starting even >if >it does not occur, else there can be no talk of unnatural ones. They may >be >fuzzy, but there is still a line. Ok. {co'a za'o} is the start of the unnatural extension, and therefore it is the not occurring natural ending. If we had the mirror of za'o, {co'u XXX} (or {mo'u XXX)) would be the end of the advanced occurring, and therefore the not occurring natural start. But it is hard for me to find a use for them. co'o mi'e xorxes ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Call Your eGroup and Save With beMANY! http://click.egroups.com/1/5072/4/_/17627/_/962666458/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com