From pycyn@aol.com Fri Jul 28 18:29:14 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21213 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2000 01:29:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 29 Jul 2000 01:29:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r14.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.68) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Jul 2000 01:29:14 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-r14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v27.12.) id a.42.8ce446f (3955) for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:29:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42.8ce446f.26b38d60@aol.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:29:04 EDT Subject: the zi'o joke To: lojban@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 3716 maikl: <<>From: pycyn@aol.com li'o > that does not mean that nothing brodas or any other such >negative thing. In order words, "zi'o broda" denies that when "broda" lacks x1, there is anything missing necessary to the relationship.>> Not exactly. "zi'o broda" is a new predicate which is satisfied by the ordered n-tuples (for whatever broda is n+1) that are just like the n+1-tuples that satisfy "broda" except they lack the first member. So what is left is all that is necessary for the new predicate, but may not be enough (indeed, clearly is not enough) for the old, though the two are obviously related -- and may both fit nicely to some English expression. <<>So, means something like "y has a >sense of humor about z" (i.e., y has found -- or would find >--something >funny But i thought "xajmi" meant "is funny", not "has a sense of humor about". When did that one change?>> When you used "zi'o". Knock off the funny thing from the triple and you havwe . This may not be quite "has a sense of humor about" but it is close. Maybe "finds things like z funny"? <<> It might be that the negative use of so much put foreward by the >joking maikl might seriously be more useful than the official use, whose >meaning -- if not function -- can be covered in other ways. "ckasu" covers "zi'o xajmi" adequately, of course... But alternative ways to say the same thing are very useful to have, all the same.>> I don't see a lot of connection between "ckasu" and "xajmi" and certainly can't see how to replace "zi'o xajmi" with anything from "ckasu". The person involved in "xajmi" is not an agent and the humor need not involve ridicule, or even minor twitting (indeed not not invole a ridiculable thing). All I meant was that the truth effect of "zi'o xajmi" could be achieved by "zo'e xajmi" (I think -- Cowan!), though by very different means. taral: <> The ancestor of this thread started by noting that using "noda" in certain places led to paradoxical results: a bottle which had no content in any world was not a botpi and a now-empty bottle is not now a botpi. In spite of Lojban's usual "duck" definitions. However, that same bottle may be a botpi zi'o (or botpi zi'o fo zi'o, since it probably doesn't have a cap either).