From sentto-44114-3433-962884408-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Thu Jul 06 11:51:45 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 13991 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2000 11:51:44 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 6 Jul 2000 11:51:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 23305 invoked by uid 40001); 6 Jul 2000 11:53:33 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 23302 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2000 11:53:32 -0000 Received: from hh.egroups.com (208.50.144.88) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 6 Jul 2000 11:53:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-3433-962884408-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.35] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jul 2000 11:53:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 13124 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2000 11:53:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Jul 2000 11:53:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr) (139.179.10.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jul 2000 11:53:26 -0000 Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (IDENT:robin@fast3.fen.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.97.28]) by firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e66BuBD08253 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:56:11 +0300 (EET DST) Sender: robin@Bilkent.EDU.TR Message-ID: <39647251.C978CC22@bilkent.edu.tr> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i686) X-Accept-Language: en To: lojban@egroups.com References: <8joa8j+hmma@eGroups.com> <3960FE75.16AB8A7F@bilkent.edu.tr> <3961FCAC.800DAC2E@math.bas.bg> From: Robin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@egroups.com; contact lojban-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 14:49:37 +0300 Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Englishistic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ivan A Derzhanski wrote: > > Robin Turner wrote: > > > Turkish (also Altaic) is also different. > > Why `also Altaic'? Hungarian is Uralic, not Altaic. Oops! I must have been carrying over from the old (an invalid) "Ural-Altaic" category. > > > "Still" (as in continuing) is "hala" (should be a circumflex > > on the first "a" , IIRC); > > Should be a circumflex on both _a_. This suffices to label the word > as a non-Turkish one; in fact it is Arabic, borrowed via Persian, and > meant `now, presently' before developing the meaning of `still'. > Makes an interesting contrast with "artIk", then. > > (e.g. "daha gelmedi" - "he/she/it hasn't come yet", > > in contrast to "hala gelmedi" - "he/she/it _still_ hasn't come"). > > I'd be curious to hear you discuss the difference between these two. > Jorge and I are native speakers of languages in which `still not' is > the only way of saying `not yet', and here you talk of a contrast. In the first case there seems to be no, or weak, implication that the event should have happened by now. For example, you can say in English "The film hasn't started yet", or in turkish "Film daha bas~lamadI" without implying that it should have started - maybe you are pointing out that the film starts at 21:00 and it is only 20:55. With "still" and "ha^la^", however, I think there is some implication of lateness. co'o mi'e robin. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Who invented Gatorade -- and what part did it play in winning the1967 Orange Bowl? Find out the true facts at http://click.egroups.com/1/6212/4/_/17627/_/962884406/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com