From sentto-44114-3582-963324650-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Tue Jul 11 14:08:43 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 22953 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2000 14:08:43 -0000 Received: from zash.lupine.org (205.186.156.18) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 11 Jul 2000 14:08:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 21699 invoked by uid 40001); 11 Jul 2000 14:10:53 -0000 Delivered-To: kli-mark@kli.org Received: (qmail 21696 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2000 14:10:53 -0000 Received: from mr.egroups.com (208.50.144.80) by zash.lupine.org with SMTP; 11 Jul 2000 14:10:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-3582-963324650-mark=kli.org@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.36] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2000 14:10:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 4376 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2000 14:10:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Jul 2000 14:10:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.240.190) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Jul 2000 14:10:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 39229 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jul 2000 14:10:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20000711141040.39228.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.49.74.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:10:40 PDT X-Originating-IP: [200.49.74.2] To: lojban@egroups.com From: "Jorge Llambias" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@egroups.com; contact lojban-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:10:40 PDT Subject: Re: `even' (Re: [lojban] Re: Tashunkekokipapi) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit la xod cusku di'e >I see the idea of "even" bearing closer to surprise than to contrast. It >denotes a truth which is not obvious. It is obvious that the presence of >a fearsome man is fearsome. It's not obvious that his horse would be >fearsome too. And yet things like "obviously even a child can understand it" make sense. The idea is that the least likely candidate is included, thus presupposing all other candidates are included as well. It is not really necessary that the least likely candidate be surprising, although it may be. It is a relative surprise if you like, more surprising than the rest. >As for the sentence "he is so fearsome that it is not surprising that even >his horse brings fear to his enemies", it is cute but doesn't hide the >fact that if you hadn't told us that his horse is fearsome we would not >have 'normally' inferred it from the fact that he is fearsome. I agree. I am saying that "even" by itself does not entail surprise. It can be used for both surprising and non-surprising situations. co'o mi'e xorxes ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lonely? Get Firetalk! Free, unlimited calls anywhere in the world. Free voice chat on hundreds of topics. http://click.egroups.com/1/5477/4/_/17627/_/963324650/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com