From mark@kli.org Sun Aug 27 12:27:56 2000
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Date: 27 Aug 2000 19:23:49 -0000
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To: lojban@egroups.com
In-reply-to: <F830e35oV4QI2YgkGPX00000017@hotmail.com> (jjllambias@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: [lojban] skudji
References:  <F830e35oV4QI2YgkGPX00000017@hotmail.com>
From: "Mark E. Shoulson" <mark@kli.org>
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>From: "Jorge Llambias" <jjllambias@hotmail.com>
>Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 07:01:59 GMT
>
>
>la mark cusku di'e
>
>>Unless I'm missing the meaning (!) intended (!), I can't see how "vouloir
>>dire" can be anything other than {[se] smuni}, or maybe some tanru/lujvo of
>>smuni.
>
>Yes, "vouloir dire" can mean that, it has both senses of
>English "to mean". A word means something and a person means
>(to say) something, un mot veut dire quelque chose, quelqu'un
>veut dire quelque chose. {se smuni} covers the first sense,
>{skudji} the second sense. I'm not sure {te smuni} could
>be stretched to cover that second sense. After all, if you
>need to clarify that you meant to say X, then you usually
>are willing to admit that what you did actually say does not
>really mean X to you. You said Y, but you meant to say X,
>which is not what Y means. So what _you_ mean to say is not
>the same as what _what you say_ means.

.ua ki'anai

I thought the discussion was mainly about the "un mot veut dire quelque
chose" meaning; the "quelqu'un veut dire quelque chose" meaning is, indeed,
transparent: you mean what you wish to say.  I agree with your analysis
here.

~mark