From xod@sixgirls.org Fri Aug 25 11:39:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28761 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2000 18:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 25 Aug 2000 18:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO erika.sixgirls.org) (207.12.88.107) by mta3 with SMTP; 25 Aug 2000 18:39:07 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by erika.sixgirls.org (8.11.0+3.3W/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e7PId6401264 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:39:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:39:06 -0400 (EDT) To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: lujvo & tanru In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 4052 On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, michael helsem wrote: > >From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" > li'o > >until we > >have committed sufficient lexicon to paper > > there are 2 related fallacies here. first, that because RARNYBAU have SO'I > VALSI & LA LOJBAN doesn't, we need to go madly about CNINO FINTI LE LUJVO > for every ZE'I SE JINVI that pops into one's STEDU. Have I said yet that I suspect that "true" Lojbanic style might include extremely long tanru? Perhaps it is malglico, or in any case non-Lojbanic, to desire small words with poignancy. Perhaps the spirit of Lojban is to achieve such shades of meaning not by relying on a huge, historical, subtle vocabulary, but by constructing detailed nuanced tanru on the spot. By "true" of course I mean trying to go where the internal logic and flow of the language takes us, rather than trying to aim it in a pre-declared direction. The existence and beauty of ke and bo hint and encourage us to take tanru in a direction that English doesn't want to. A tendency in this direction would address the Great Dictionary Problem, and give us some SW effects by providing us with a new, rather poetic, dynamic skill. In English we pause for a moment and try to recall the One Right Word, whereas perhaps in Lojban we should pause for a moment and construct a monstrous tanru with kes and bos. Unstacking ke and bo might be an easier skill then de-lujvo-izing, recalling rafsi, and figuring out the place structure of an unfamiliar lujvo. Whatever the case may be, since this is a very un-Englishistic habit, I think I will try to develop it! ----- dave@userland.com on design: How do you get there, do a lot of hard work, breathe, and listen listen listen. Listen to what the product tells you. Sometimes, if you're really good at listening, you can hear it speak. Do what it says and shut up.